the_fliz1 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I realize that other cultures have different views on things, and maybe I'm just being a bit too close minded about this, but this is just about assinine. Here is the LINK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I think anyone, absolutely anyone, should stay the hell out of the Sudan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwrkb Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isadorah Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 It's Sudan. I'm pretty sure people have been killed for even more innocent offenses. What's scary is if it were in almost any other part of the world, I would say assanine, but with Sudan, I'm not surprised and think it reflects very well of how messed up that region has become. scary times we live in. scary indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alison the wilca Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 what is the what is a wonderful (and horrifying) first hand view of growing up sudanese in the time of the civil war. i highly recommend it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwrkb Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 that's been on my shelf of books to read since it came out. i hope to get to it soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I'm sorry, but if you're that teacher, you gotta know better. The project should have been, "Hey kids! Let's come up with any name for the teddy bear... that isn't Mohammed! May I suggest something that your machete-weilding relatives might enjoy, like 'Jesus Schmezus' or 'Buddha has an outie.'" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 what is the what is a wonderful (and horrifying) first hand view of growing up sudanese in the time of the civil war. i highly recommend it. I understood the message and all, but it was a pain in the ass to slog through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alison the wilca Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 seriously? i thought it was very lovingly written and incredibly quick/easy/enjoyable to read through. i don't even see how that could be. but, i guess, it be! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I'm sorry, but if you're that teacher, you gotta know better. The project should have been, "Hey kids! Let's come up with any name for the teddy bear... that isn't Mohammed! May I suggest something that your machete-weilding relatives might enjoy, like 'Jesus Schmezus' or 'Buddha has an outie.'" Practically speaking, I agree with this, principally however, I think the Muslims need to chill the fuck out. I don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest j.bickerson Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Or Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. Yep, I agree! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I think the Muslims need to chill the fuck out. SOME Muslims need to chill out, my guess is a larger % are like... One Muslim teacher at Unity, who also has a child in Gibbons' class, said she had not found the project offensive. "I had no problem with it at all," the teacher said. "I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed that she got them to vote." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 SOME Muslims need to chill out, my guess is a larger % are like... I wholeheartedly agree it is not all Muslims, unfortunately, it appears as though many of the ones who are in a position to dole out the punishment do feel that way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I think the real issue here is that, despite a large % that EL Famous* was talking about, there is a sizeable population of the Muslim world that will settle for nothing less than a totally Islamist world. Period. All infidels must die. Why would they punish terrorists when that, in the minds of some, is the most honorable way to die? Places like Sudan and Palestine, where poverty and a lack of education are the norm, probably have a higher % of people that feel this way. Other places that are better off, not as much. But my point is, after all the hubbub about Salman Rushdie and that one cartoon, if you are a teacher in that area you have to be careful. Know your audience! *I don't care what your screen name is this week, you'll always be EL F to me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I wholeheartedly agree it is not all Muslims, unfortunately, it appears as though many of the ones who are in a position to dole out the punishment do feel that way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 any of those folks interpreting their religious doctrine as such are the problem, (as much as you'd like to make it) not neccesarily the fault of the Muslim faith itself. i know, i know...we can't hold the individual accountable for their actions, that just doesn't work. But the thing is, like the bible, it, the Koran, contains violent passages, and does call upon followers to do harm to non-believers. XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers. II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all; IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them. IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God. IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward. VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's. 22.19: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads. 22.20: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well. 22.21: And for them are whips of iron. 22.22: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning. Passages such as this don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 But the thing is, like the bible, it, the Koran, contains violent passages, and does call upon followers to due harm to non-believers. XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers. II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all; IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them. IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God. IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward. VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's. 22.19: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads. 22.20: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well. 22.21: And for them are whips of iron. 22.22: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning. Passages such as this don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I think it's illegal for one to translate the Koran! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 God is a bad guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 The bolded passages don't exactly "call upon followers to due [sic] harm to non-believers." True, but when you put them in a context having to do with issues we are now involved with globally, they do resonate with a certain degree of menace. Example: IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God. Taken at face value, the preceding passage sounds innocuous enough. However, in our current context, it is essentially saying that god is on your side against the infidels, (non-Muslims, i.e. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 'fight' does not always equal 'violence'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 'fight' does not always equal 'violence'. I would argue that it does in a time of global Jihad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 True, but when you put them in a context having to do with issues we are now involved with globally, they do resonate with a certain degree of menace. Yeah, but whattaya gonna do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I would argue that it does in a time of global Jihad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 but it's a flawed argument. the inclusion of the word 'always' makes a huge difference and then, does indeed give you the philosophy that it is not the individual, but overarcing muslim faith that is to blame for any disparity committed under it's name. look, i agree that there are certain extremely contradictory and potentially harmful passages in both the bible and koran. what i can't agree w/ your stance provided earlier that the answer is to 'get rid of' all religion. instead of eradicating the entire faith, uphold those passages of faith/beliefs that abide to the 'Golden Rule' (AKA Ethic of Reciprocity) that traverses across most faiths (including Christians and Muslims). there is a responsbility to those heads of these organized faiths to make this happen. i may be jumping ahead, but it seems like your using this to wind up for another 'religion is stupid, dangerous and all of it should be eradicated' campaign... and, as i said earlier, an even greater responsibility of the individual to uphold it. What is an individual, a person of true Muslim faith to do if the Koran is essentially telling them it is acceptable to bring harm to non-believers, or those who Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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