I finally saw The Last Waltz

[dmait]

>i assume everyone has heard what the band sounded like without robbie robertson? you'd have thought the others wouldn't have needed him seeing as they helped write all the songs, and that evil robbie went and took all the credit (except, it would appear, on about 2 or 3 songs of every album - very cunning of him, to give them credit on a couple so as not to arouse suspicion!)

 

Barney Hoskyns devotes quite a bit about this topic in Across the Great Divide. The impression you get about the first few albums is that while Robbie was writing songs, the others were partying and horsing around. The others didn't write many songs at all, so there weren't any to put on the records. It was not like George Harrison struggling to get one of his many songs on a Beatles record. Similarly, Harrison released the 2 LP All Things Must Pass after the Beatles, while Levon's albums were mostly comprised of cover songs. The others' contribution is primarily to the songs' sound and feel, which cannot be minimized. Their musicianship made Robbie's songs stronger and perhaps more "rootsy" than they otherwise may have been, as evidenced by his post-Band output, and his songs gave the others a vehicle for their expert musicianship.

[Analogman]

>i assume everyone has heard what the band sounded like without robbie robertson? you'd have thought the others wouldn't have needed him seeing as they helped write all the songs, and that evil robbie went and took all the credit (except, it would appear, on about 2 or 3 songs of every album - very cunning of him, to give them credit on a couple so as not to arouse suspicion!)

 

Barney Hoskyns devotes quite a bit about this topic in Across the Great Divide. The impression you get about the first few albums is that while Robbie was writing songs, the others were partying and horsing around. The others didn't write many songs at all, so there weren't any to put on the records. It was not like George Harrison struggling to get one of his many songs on a Beatles record. Similarly, Harrison released the 2 LP All Things Must Pass after the Beatles, while Levon's albums were mostly comprised of cover songs. The others' contribution is primarily to the songs' sound and feel, which cannot be minimized. Their musicianship made Robbie's songs stronger and perhaps more "rootsy" than they otherwise may have been, as evidenced by his post-Band output, and his songs gave the others a vehicle for their expert musicianship.

 

 

And in his book, Levon Helm goes against all that dude says in that book - also, ATMP, was a 3 record set.

[Sir Stewart]

And Levon Helm goes against all that dude says in that book - also, ATMP, was a 3 record set.

 

I like the part in Levon's book where he talks about those dudes from the John Wesley Harding album cover hanging out at Big Pink.

[Analogman]

I would say I recall that, but it has been many years since the book left my hands.

[Sir Stewart]

It's not much, but he says they all got pretty wild that night. It stuck with me because I had no idea those guys were anybody.

[Analogman]

Some sort of Asian musicians?

[Synthesizer Patel]

The Bauls Of Bengal, and don't forget that the beatles are in the tree!

[Analogman]

The Bauls Of Bengal, and don't forget that the beatles are in the tree!

 

 

No one, I think, is in my tree

I mean, it must be high or low

That is, you can't, you know, tune in, but it's alright

That is, I think it's not too bad

[Synthesizer Patel]

exactly.

 

i think you'd have to be pretty stoned to think you can see them in the bark. i have got the vinyl of john wesley harding, and i can't really see it . . . . note to self: get more stoned.

[Analogman]

I was just quoting the Beatles song. I have never seen the cover - except for the cd sleeve, which is too small to see anything. I have heard of that though.

[Winston Legthigh]

Easily Scorsese's best film

 

Madre de Dios!!

 

I might rank this movie slightly ahead of Boxcar Bertha, but behind New York New York...

[markosis]

>i assume everyone has heard what the band sounded like without robbie robertson? you'd have thought the others wouldn't have needed him seeing as they helped write all the songs, and that evil robbie went and took all the credit (except, it would appear, on about 2 or 3 songs of every album - very cunning of him, to give them credit on a couple so as not to arouse suspicion!)

 

Barney Hoskyns devotes quite a bit about this topic in Across the Great Divide. The impression you get about the first few albums is that while Robbie was writing songs, the others were partying and horsing around. The others didn't write many songs at all, so there weren't any to put on the records. It was not like George Harrison struggling to get one of his many songs on a Beatles record. Similarly, Harrison released the 2 LP All Things Must Pass after the Beatles, while Levon's albums were mostly comprised of cover songs. The others' contribution is primarily to the songs' sound and feel, which cannot be minimized. Their musicianship made Robbie's songs stronger and perhaps more "rootsy" than they otherwise may have been, as evidenced by his post-Band output, and his songs gave the others a vehicle for their expert musicianship.

 

1. Have you ever heard Robbie Robertson sing? Its a travesty. Without the wonderful voices around him those songs would have amounted to nothing.

2. I agree that Robbie may have been the initial spark that began the songwriting process, but the way the songs were arranged certainly was affected by the rest of the group. How could Robbie take sole songwriting credit for "Chest Fever"? I seriously doubt he dictated the entire process of writing that song. Its obvious, listening to the songs as they were recorded, that the existence of the other musicians made an impact on the songwriting.

 

I love Robbie Robertson. He's my favorite rock guitarist and damn near my favorite songwriter, but he's also a smug dick. I have no problem questioning his integrity.

[Synthesizer Patel]

1. Have you ever heard Robbie Robertson sing? Its a travesty. Without the wonderful voices around him those songs would have amounted to nothing.

2. I agree that Robbie may have been the initial spark that began the songwriting process, but the way the songs were arranged certainly was affected by the rest of the group. How could Robbie take sole songwriting credit for "Chest Fever"? I seriously doubt he dictated the entire process of writing that song. Its obvious, listening to the songs as they were recorded, that the existence of the other musicians made an impact on the songwriting.

 

I love Robbie Robertson. He's my favorite rock guitarist and damn near my favorite songwriter, but he's also a smug dick. I have no problem questioning his integrity.

 

have you heard bob dylan when he worked with Sly & Robbie, or when he recorded with Slash on guitar and all the rest of that crap he did in the 1980s? he's only as good as the musicians he plays with, too - like most people. does he pay al kooper royalties for like a rolling stone? also, wouldn't those motown session players and the wrecking crew be billionaries by now if that notion stood for anything?

[Analogman]

have you heard bob dylan when he worked with Sly & Robbie, or when he recorded with Slash on guitar and all the rest of that crap he did in the 1980s? he's only as good as the musicians he plays with, too - like most people. does he pay al kooper royalties for like a rolling stone? also, wouldn't those motown session players and the wrecking crew be billionaries by now if that notion stood for anything?

 

Those dudes were studio musicians/guest musicians, paid to play as directed, they were not part of the band - so to speak. The Band, however, was made up of Robbie, Levon, Rick, Richard, and Garth. They were not some hired band, who played behind a star of some sort.

 

I have always admired what R.E.M and U2 do - split the publishing.

[markosis]

Thanks, Aman.

 

have you heard bob dylan when he worked with Sly & Robbie, or when he recorded with Slash on guitar and all the rest of that crap he did in the 1980s? he's only as good as the musicians he plays with, too - like most people. does he pay al kooper royalties for like a rolling stone? also, wouldn't those motown session players and the wrecking crew be billionaries by now if that notion stood for anything?

 

1. I haven't listened to any Dylan post-Blood On The Tracks. I have no desire to either.

2. Using that logic, it sounds like the other amazing, enigmatic, genius musicians in The Band were basically there to back up Robbie, and nothing more, and they had absolutely no affect on the songs, and that the songs would have been the same without them. Robbie is a very talented person, but I don't think he was back there directing Garth or telling Rick how to write his basslines. To think these guys basically lived together and no one ever had an arranging idea outside of a few songs? For the record, Robbie himself has said that the Across The Great Divide box set was less than historically accurate.

[Synthesizer Patel]

yeah, but they were completely essential to the sound of whole record labels. the stax musicians too. not many bands split things evenly - you named 2, but i like neither of those two myself, so it doesn't work for me on a creative level - and that's about all i'd care for, seeing as how i am not them. you very rarely hear any of these poor musicians who pissed their money up the wall on drugs and the high life say they are glad people like robbie robertson was there to give them some focus for how ever long it lasted in their lives.

 

i don't really care either way, who wrote what in any bands. paul mccartney bitches about that sort of thing over his and john lennon's contributions - they never did it back when they had better things to be doing with their time, rather than thinking about what they once had.

[Synthesizer Patel]

Thanks, Aman.

 

 

 

1. I haven't listened to any Dylan post-Blood On The Tracks. I have no desire to either.

2. Using that logic, it sounds like the other amazing, enigmatic, genius musicians in The Band were basically there to back up Robbie, and nothing more, and they had absolutely no affect on the songs, and that the songs would have been the same without them. Robbie is a very talented person, but I don't think he was back there directing Garth or telling Rick how to write his basslines. To think these guys basically lived together and no one ever had an arranging idea outside of a few songs? For the record, Robbie himself has said that the Across The Great Divide box set was less than historically accurate.

 

What, you've never heard DESIRE? - for one. You really should.

My logic was not to say that they were not essential, it was to say that the same thing can be said for loads of other essential sounding musicians (eg stax - booker t and the mgs) who were only paid as session men, eventhough without them the music would have been entirely different. does John Simon bitch about not getting his due? - he produced the stuff and played on it too, and if you hear his other work you can definately see he had a massive part to play in the sound.

[mfwahl]

Those dudes were studio musicians/guest musicians, paid to play as directed, they were not part of the band - so to speak. The Band, however, was made up of Robbie, Levon, Rick, Richard, and Garth. They were not some hired band, who played behind a star of some sort.

 

I have always admired what R.E.M and U2 do - split the publishing.

I've also read that Trey Anastasio from Phish has given credit to the full band for songs on tunes that they claimed they didn't help in the process.

 

The thing that upsets me abou the Band situation is that Garth has filed for bankruptcy mutliple times and he put so much into their songs.

[Analogman]

yeah, but they were completely essential to the sound of whole record labels. the stax musicians too. not many bands split things evenly - you named 2, but i like neither of those two myself, so it doesn't work for me on a creative level - and that's about all i'd care for, seeing as how i am not them. you very rarely hear any of these poor musicians who pissed their money up the wall on drugs and the high life say they are glad people like robbie robertson was there to give them some focus for how ever long it lasted in their lives.

 

i don't really care either way, who wrote what in any bands. paul mccartney bitches about that sort of thing over his and john lennon's contributions - they never did it back when they had better things to be doing with their time, rather than thinking about what they once had.

 

It's a never ending deal - at the end of the day. I will agree that there has to be a leader in a band - rule by committee does not really work to well. Or it seems that way in most of the bands that I am into, anyhow.

 

It all comes from Levon feeling slighted. As you know, Mike Love sued Brian over such things - but that was a whole other deal - as Murray had Mike's name left off of various song credits.

[Sir Stewart]

You mentioned U2, A-man, and they continue to amaze me - thirty years now, no breakups, no lawsuits, not one band member even threatening to leave. How do they do it...

[Analogman]

You mentioned U2, A-man, and they continue to amaze me - thirty years now, no breakups, no lawsuits, not one band member even threatening to leave. How do they do it...

 

We had a thread about that once - I think. Also, ZZ Top. It is interesting.

[Synthesizer Patel]

You mentioned U2, A-man, and they continue to amaze me - thirty years now, no breakups, no lawsuits, not one band member even threatening to leave. How do they do it...

 

nobody else'll have em?

[LouisvilleGreg]

Going back to Levon's book again: My favorite part is during the early days of touring with The Hawk they were playing some honky tonk bar somewhere and they got stiffed on payment. They waited in a field aways down from the bar until late at night after everyone had left and went back in, doused it with gas. They left a trail of gas out into the field, lit it, torched the place and blew themselves over in the process. The local cop came and realized what they had done and told them to go ahead and get out of there, as the owner had it coming to him. We need more rock bands like that these days.

[TheMaker]

I haven't listened to any Dylan post-Blood On The Tracks. I have no desire to either.

 

This is literally the most tragic thing I have ever read in my 28 years of life.

[markosis]

There's too much music in the world. I could spend 5 years wading through Dylan's catalogue. I'd rather stick with the Dylan essentials and keep exploring new sounds that excite me.