grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Im not trying to get banned or blocked or anything stupid. but when i see a thread like "Shame on every forum members that made fun of Jay Bennett in the last weeks!" getting closed i get discouraged. Are you all really just that afraid to talk about this? I heard nothing but bad things about jay two weeks ago from 95% of you. Now there is any out-pouring of love. YOU ALL ARE PHONY. I'm sorry i had to say it. I would've been put-down and had smart-ass or mean comments if i would have spoken out on my love for jay a week ago. I love jay today, i loved him when he died, i loved him a week ago, a month ago you name it. I just want someone to justify this other than, "this is a hard time or this is inappropriate, or whatever." Maybe why you all feel bad and are "Mourning" is because of all the bad things you've said. I'm sorry once again. I'm only doing this because i used to be so very upset over the bad Jay talk on here recently, and it sickens me to read the 32 pages of RIP JAY!!!!. I don't want TROUBLE! i just want some like light shed on this or SOMETHING. Link to post Share on other sites
grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 and when i said i wanted to be his friend i was called creepy which is just weird cuz now everyone wishes they could just see jay Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Because even when people made fun of Jay, they acknowledge his talents, and wonderful contributions to the band. Most people mourn by remembering good things, not bad. It really is a time and place thing. Everyone is in shock about what happened, and we all loved Jay, even with the jokes, so people want to express this. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Get over yourself. You were baiting with the other thread. There have always been very positive comments here about Jay. Maybe you only wanted to see the negative. When the lawsuit stuff came out, yes, there were some negative comments. This is to be expected. Link to post Share on other sites
grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I want to see negative comments????? are you serious???? Its just very ironic to me All the broken hip songs are soooooooooo funny now Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Situations change, dude. In any case of a death like this, there will be stuff done beforehand that would never happen after the epson has passed away. Many of the stories involving Jay were easy targets to make fun of. Even the biggest Jay supporters could admit this. But Jay dying isn't one of those stories. The point is that a wonderfully gifted musician died at too young an age. His character flaws aren't what should be discussed now. Link to post Share on other sites
grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 . His character flaws aren't what should be discussed now. No your right im not talking about his flaws im talking about all of yours Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It's common sense. You look back on things in a different light, especially when it involves death. Nothing has changed about all we've read and thought about Jay before, but since his death is still recent, people are going to focus on remembering his musical gifts, and such positive things. Everyone on this board loved, or at the very least, respected Jay. It's a mourning situation, so the love and respect will be more prominent than the jokes. I'll say it again, it all comes down to the situation. I don't see how you don't understand this. Link to post Share on other sites
grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 i do i just remember the bitter taste i felt from the insults is all, its whatever i dont even care anymore i just wanted to get this off my chest. You're all just hypocrites in your own ways. and i am too Link to post Share on other sites
mastershake Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree it is kind of phony... but there were a ton of people who did understand Jay's significance to the band before he died and were supportive of Jay. The fact is most of us would probably not be fans of Wilco if Jay hadn't been in the band helping create the masterpieces of Summerteeth and YHF. Maybe his death has made some people actually come to grips with this realization as they were obviously in denial of it prior to his death. Link to post Share on other sites
grateful dead Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree it is kind of phony... but there were a ton of people who did understand Jay's significance to the band before he died and were supportive of Jay. The fact is most of us would probably not be fans of Wilco if Jay hadn't been in the band helping create the masterpieces of Summerteeth and YHF. Maybe his death has made some people actually come to grips with this realization as they were obviously in denial of it prior to his death. I never wanted to bait anyone. I dont even want to argue I think that too. Its all sad. His death, the phonies, everything. I'm just putting on It Hurts...... Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree it is kind of phony... but there were a ton of people who did understand Jay's significance to the band before he died and were supportive of Jay. The fact is most of us would probably not be fans of Wilco if Jay hadn't been in the band helping create the masterpieces of Summerteeth and YHF. Maybe his death has made some people actually come to grips with this realization as they were obviously in denial of it prior to his death.I don't think it's a case of people being in denial, I think that there was a lot about Jay that was easy to make jokes out of. I laughed at the lawsuit lyrics, but still respect Jay as a musical genius Even when people made fun of him, they acknowledged that Wilco may not exist had he never came around. Link to post Share on other sites
mastershake Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I don't think it's a case of people being in denial, I think that there was a lot about Jay that was easy to make jokes out of. I laughed at the lawsuit lyrics, but still respect Jay as a musical genius Even when people made fun of him, they acknowledged that Wilco may not exist had he never came around.i'd say the nels cline > jay bennett crowd was in denial. Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 i'd say the nels cline > jay bennett crowd was in denial.No, I think that crowd just believes Nels to be better than Jay. You can argue that all you want, but there are people that will always pick Nels. It's plenty possible for them to believe that, and still acknowledge Jay's contributions, and mourn his death. Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I still laugh at the fabulous lyrics that SR did -- and I always will. Pure comedic genius. It has nothing to do with how I feel about Jay. Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I still laugh at the fabulous lyrics that SR did -- and I always will. Pure comedic genius. It has nothing to do with how I feel about Jay.Exactly.Those were hilarious from a purely comedic stance. And I have no problem saying that while still mourning Jay, without being "phony." Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Grateful Dead, Jay was polarizing. I understand where your coming from, but think of the situation. It's like one of your controversial friends or co-workers died, and now is the funeral. There are still numerous people who found Jay's personality to be smothering, but loved his talent. That being said, none of them are going to show up at his funeral to give him a negative eulogy. This is a human nature. Parts of Jay's life are very sad, especially the end of it, and people want to find a positive way to deal with life's underbelly. I disagree with anybody who says your putting yourself on, but maybe there's just a better time to discuss Jay openly. Time is what we need now. Emotions are high and we still don't even know how he died. An honest reflection of the wide array of Jay's life will probably be healthy, but not until we've had a little space and information to accept the reality of Jay Bennett's life and death. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Well, as the creator of the bulk of the lawsuit lyrics, I feel compelled to respond to this thread. Part of the grieving process is anger, and I don't deny anyone the right to be angry with people who have ribbed Jay over the years on VC - it is not my business to tell anyone how to grieve. Nevertheless, some of the anger directed at fellow VCers does directly interfere with their own right to grieve how they choose, and I may be so bold as to say that is likely why the moderators closed the thread in question. If you read the bulk of the negative comments posted over the years about Jay, they simply criticize his musical contributions and creative direction. A lot of people like post-Jay Wilco - some even more than Jayful Wilco, but that says not a thing about the humanity, talent or kindness of Jay Bennett - just what we as fans enjoy from our music. As for the lawsuit, I posted in the introduction of the thread that I meant no harm or ill-will toward Jay at all, and thought it was a testament to his musical contributions that so many of the parodies came from YHF and ST songs. I thought they were funny, a lot of VCers thought they were funny, and my intentions were to make light of a pretty serious situation. I think it would be more crass of me to say now that I regret doing that, because I certainly don't; had Jay not passed, I wouldn't be posting on May 28 that I regretted the lawsuit lyrics. I can't change what happened, and I can't change the fact that I enjoyed myself or that other people enjoyed it. I can say with 100% honesty that what I did was in no way a reflection of any ill-will toward Jay, that I love his contributions to Wilco very much, and I will miss him dearly. Link to post Share on other sites
Three dollars and 63 cents Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 No, I think that crowd just believes Nels to be better than Jay. You can argue that all you want, but there are people that will always pick Nels. It's plenty possible for them to believe that, and still acknowledge Jay's contributions, and mourn his death. What I don't understand is why so many here feel like people have to choose Jay OR Nels, as if it's impossible to appreciate both of them. There's no reason to choose, as far as I'm concerned. It's pretty well known around here that I'm a huge fan of Nels's work both with the band and as a jazz and experimental artist, but I'll be the first to admit that YHF and Being There are my two favorite Wilco albums. Liking Nels doesn't mean I hated Jay, which seems to be what a lot of people are assuming about people who like Nels's contributions to the band. Why are people still bickering over this after so many years? It just seems really pointless to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Well, as the creator of the bulk of the lawsuit lyrics, I feel compelled to respond to this thread. Part of the grieving process is anger, and I don't deny anyone the right to be angry with people who have ribbed Jay over the years on VC - it is not my business to tell anyone how to grieve. Nevertheless, some of the anger directed at fellow VCers does directly interfere with their own right to grieve how they choose, and I may be so bold as to say that is likely why the moderators closed the thread in question. If you read the bulk of the negative comments posted over the years about Jay, they simply criticize his musical contributions and creative direction. A lot of people like post-Jay Wilco - some even more than Jayful Wilco, but that says not a thing about the humanity, talent or kindness of Jay Bennett - just what we as fans enjoy from our music. As for the lawsuit, I posted in the introduction of the thread that I meant no harm or ill-will toward Jay at all, and thought it was a testament to his musical contributions that so many of the parodies came from YHF and ST songs. I thought they were funny, a lot of VCers thought they were funny, and my intentions were to make light of a pretty serious situation. I think it would be more crass of me to say now that I regret doing that, because I certainly don't; had Jay not passed, I wouldn't be posting on May 28 that I regretted the lawsuit lyrics. I can't change what happened, and I can't change the fact that I enjoyed myself or that other people enjoyed it. I can say with 100% honesty that what I did was in no way a reflection of any ill-will toward Jay, that I love his contributions to Wilco very much, and I will miss him dearly.Very well-said. And once again, the parody lyrics were brilliant, and still are, regardless of what's happened since then. Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 What I don't understand is why so many here feel like people have to choose Jay OR Nels, as if it's impossible to appreciate both of them. There's no reason to choose, as far as I'm concerned. It's pretty well known around here that I'm a huge fan of Nels's work both with the band and as a jazz and experimental artist, but I'll be the first to admit that YHF and Being There are my two favorite Wilco albums. Liking Nels doesn't mean I hated Jay, which seems to be what a lot of people are assuming about people who like Nels's contributions to the band. Why are people still bickering over this after so many years? It just seems really pointless to me.Very true. I don't understand it either. I'm a fan of Wilco. Not Jay Wilco or Nels Wilco or Jim O'Rourke Wilco. Just Wilco. Meaning I'm a fan of music that's been released as Wilco, no matter the personnel. Just because my iTunes says I've listened to Jay's solo music more than Nels' doesn't mean anything about my views on their roles in Wilco. They've each contributed a lot to some wonderful songs, and I value them both very highly. Especially considering they're so different skill-wise, I don't see the point in debating one or the other. Link to post Share on other sites
myboyblue Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 2 comments - 1st) Grateful dead - you are a true patriot and hero. Thanks for exposing all of the hypocricy. 2nd) There are quite a few drama queens/kings on this board. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 If you think it's hypocrisy to say you dislike Jay's solo work and then mourn his death, I think you likely won't see eye to eye with a lot of people on this board for the next few months. Link to post Share on other sites
Shakespeare In The Alley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I still don't see it as hypocrisy, just a product of the grieving process. My immediate reaction to the lawsuit news was that Jay was being a massive prick. My immediate reaction to hearing the news of his death was that it's a tragic story. I stand by both. Even as news comes out about the lawsuit, and other things, I don't regret my immediate reaction, and I never stopped respecting Jay as a musician. After his death, I've listened to more of his solo music, and it still isn't clicking entirely with me. I'm OK with this, and I'm still recognizing his genius, and reflecting on his musical career. Link to post Share on other sites
myboyblue Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 If you think it's hypocrisy to say you dislike Jay's solo work and then mourn his death, I think you likely won't see eye to eye with a lot of people on this board for the next few months.oh, no, I was just being sarcastic... well, at least about my first comment. Link to post Share on other sites
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