(The Album) - One Week Later

[Guest Jules]

With the exception of "Impossible Germany", every song on SBS had something I didn't like about it. For example "You are My Face" starts out beautiful before degenerating into a "RAWK" stomp. It goes from this beautiful whispery ballad to an awful Phish jam.

I don't get why you don't like certain things about those tracks.

[Gabe32]

the tempo change in 'you are my face' is one of my favorite parts of any wilco song ever. i don't think many people would enjoy the song if it was just tweedy whispering poetry over a D chord the entire time, you know? the music rises with the lyrics. nothing like phish at all.

 

edit: it's the exact same thing in 'misunderstood' too, no?

[mpolak21]

Just a thought here: The more people on this board try to convince others that SBS is the worst album ever released, the relevance of this board will become just another obsessive/impossible to please/ranting fan site that no one cares to visit because it is all negativity.

 

This sounds a bit like: If you continue to disagree with my superior opinion this entire board will lose it's relevance. Which is perhaps one of most nonsensical things this board has ever seen. Only Essox may have sounded more full of himself.

 

--Mike

[jakobnicholas]

I liked Wilco (The Album) on first listen, and it's grown a tiny bit since then.

 

Overall, I still think it sounds a little safe and reserved. But saying that, almost every song has at least one element that makes me appreciate it....except for Sonny Feeling (to me, it's the only major clunker on the album). Deeper Down isn't anything that special, but I dig the instrumentation on it. You and I should be a sappy, nothing-to-write-home-about love ditty, but it's a little more than that because of Jeff's voice and the bouncy groove behind it...it sounds sincere and I can buy it. You Never Know is pretty fun the first half....I wish they'd have chopped off the last minute, as the repetitive "I don't care anymores" almost ruin the song for me.

 

My standouts are One Wing, Bull Black Nova and Solitaire.

 

 

I'm glad they made Sky Blue Sky and Wilco (The Album). I really am. Both are "good" records with some great songs. And I'll definitely spin them fairly often over time. But I really hope they don't make a 3rd. I have no idea what the next record should sound like, but I hope it has an overall vibe of Bull Black Nova or Loose Fur's 'Wreckroom" or Wilco Book or even the spare, keyboard-heavy Panthers. I think I'd rather them try something really out there and fail, than to make another album of "pretty" songs.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'd like to think we could disagree harmoniously re: SBS.

 

Which is exactly what we've done in all these threads.

[nodep5]

This sounds a bit like: If you continue to disagree with my superior opinion this entire board will lose it's relevance. Which is perhaps one of most nonsensical things this board has ever seen. Only Essox may have sounded more full of himself.

 

--Mike

 

No, take me out of it. My point wasn't about my opinion, it what about the outspoken opinion of many on this board relating to the merits of that album. I guess what i'm saying is that there is no perspective on this board when it comes to how SBS is discussed. Is it really THAT awful of a record? Do you REALLY listen three times and then never again? Does it REALLY bore you to tears? This is silly. Opinion or no opinion this album is likely in the top 15 percentile of decent albums in the past 10 years. If it is anything it isn't unlistenable. It is like some cool badge of honor to start every post with "Wilco fan for three years who hates and will never again listen to a note of SBS except the part on Impossible Germany where Nels shreds alot, and did I mention that What Light is the worst song recorded in modern time" Maybe I'm exaggerating all of this for the sake of my point, but I have read these comments about this album and I think it is silly.

[Guest Speed Racer]

No, take me out of it. My point wasn't about my opinion, it what about the outspoken opinion of many on this board relating to the merits of that album.

 

I guess what i'm saying is that there is no perspective on this board when it comes to how SBS is discussed.

 

Opinion or no opinion this album is likely in the top 15 percentile of decent albums in the past 10 years.

 

but I have read these comments about this album and I think it is silly.

 

Which are your opinions, so it IS about your opinion.

 

Maybe I'm exaggerating all of this for the sake of my point

 

Well, that one's a fact.

 

Quick edit: It's okay to discuss SBS, it's okay to not like SBS, it's okay to discuss how you don't like SBS, ad it's okay to not like (and discuss how you don't like) those who discuss not liking SBS. And it's okay and totally easy to avoid threads on VC that discuss any of the above, if you don't want to see that.

[nodep5]

Ok, I come on this board quite regularly and politely disagree in silence and then I speak out about something I find silly and people don't want to dicuss the point, just the way the point was raised. Are you all telling me you don't see my point about the SBS criticism?

[BassMan77]

Thoughts:

 

1) I enjoy both SBS and WTA

2) The "rock out" part of YAMF is one of my favorite moments on SBS.

3) I feel that WTA is Wilco's most accessible record, and I dont think this is a bad thing. I'm quite happy having a good collection songs. They've done plenty of experimenting in the past, every album doesn’t have to be some art rock exploration.

4) I always find it interesting to see how different people feel so different about songs. Wilco (The Song), One Wing, and I'll Fight have been heavily criticized here, but those are my favorite tracks.

[Ghost of Electricity]

I personally enjoy both though I don't think either is among their strongest work. I'm happy leaving it at that.

 

On another note, I have noticed that this board (or at least certain people, I haven't been keeping track) is awful fond of the word "relevant" or "relevance" if you prefer the noun. Seeing how the discussion of music is by nature a discussion of opinion and therefore taste, I would suggest that this term should be stricken from the vocabulary of all good Via Chicagoans. It is vague and therefore meaningless. Relevant to what? Perhaps you mean influential. If so, use the word influential. Perhaps you mean "to my taste" or "means something to me personally" if so, use them. Don't use some hipster b.s. to try to turn your own opinions into universal truths.

 

Rant over.

[nodep5]

I personally enjoy both though I don't think either is among their strongest work. I'm happy leaving it at that.

 

On another note, I have noticed that this board (or at least certain people, I haven't been keeping track) is awful fond of the word "relevant" or "relevance" if you prefer the noun. Seeing how the discussion of music is by nature a discussion of opinion and therefore taste, I would suggest that this term should be stricken from the vocabulary of all good Via Chicagoans. It is vague and therefore meaningless. Relevant to what? Perhaps you mean influential. If so, use the word influential. Perhaps you mean "to my taste" or "means something to me personally" if so, use them. Don't use some hipster b.s. to try to turn your own opinions into universal truths.

 

Rant over.

 

I will be careful here to not sound "nonsensical" or "full of myself" and I will ignore the "relevance" rant because I want to focus on the message and not what my English 101 professor would think. Which by the way, I used the word "relevance" to describe the lack there of relating to this message board if a vocal number of individuals continue to have unrealistic expectations of a rock and roll band. So I'm feeling ok about my use of the word. Not to sound like a jerk, but the reaction to my thoughts on SBS got me going. People want to pick every little word apart when all I was saying was that the treatment of SBS was the equivalent of calling cheese pizza inedible. Sure it is not supreme or mushroom or whatever but it is still pretty refreshing. I kind of think of SBS as pepperoni. Anyway, just adding to the misery at this point.

[Beltmann]

Let's not overlook the role of exaggeration to make points about SBS and its place in the Wilco canon. I think nearly everybody on this board that has ever criticized SBS (including me) would agree that it's still better than most records released in the last few years.

[So Long]

This record has effortlessly become a staple on my iPod.

[Ghost of Electricity]

Is it really THAT awful of a record? Do you REALLY listen three times and then never again? Does it REALLY bore you to tears?

The answer to all these question is, in my case at least, no. So I take your point, and wasn't attacking you. I was attacking your choice of words, because i feel if you are going to make the effort to speak the words might as well mean something, rather than meaning nothing. Because every time I have seen the word "relevant" used on this board it has really not meant a thing.

 

If that's English 101, then oh well, I guess I can see the value of a college education.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Ok, I come on this board quite regularly and politely disagree in silence and then I speak out about something I find silly and people don't want to dicuss the point, just the way the point was raised. Are you all telling me you don't see my point about the SBS criticism?

 

No, we're telling you it's your opinion and some of us think your opinion differs from our opinion. We're discussing. The way the point was raised IS the point; you stated an opinion and we are evaluating it in relation to our own.

[Brent Best]

One week later and I still cant find one good thing to say about this album. I never thought I would say this about a Wilco record, but so be it. I actually liked a good poriton of SBS, but this album reminds me of something Ryan Adams would spit out while on a 5 week bender. But hey every one of my favorite artists has put out at least one stinker...With Wilco, this is it.

[mpolak21]

Ok, I come on this board quite regularly and politely disagree in silence and then I speak out about something I find silly and people don't want to dicuss the point, just the way the point was raised. Are you all telling me you don't see my point about the SBS criticism?

 

Pre-post note: I made a couple digressions that broke up my argument a little too much, so in honor of David Foster Wallace, prepare for the first (or at least the second) VC post with endnotes.

 

Two things are hurting your case. First of all you have said things along these lines before quite a bit, everyone here is a bit of a bit of broken record, but when it becomes noticeable it gets harder and harder to engage with (1.). This is small potatoes though compared to the second issue...

 

...I think you overshot the point you wanted to make by turning argument slightly personal in away that you might not have intended. For instance when Jesusetc84 or Speed or myself have voiced criticisms about Sky Blue Sky we talk about the album. I might say for instance that Walken (2.) sucks, and to me that is different than saying anyone who likes Walken has no perspective on what good music is. Now perhaps I am implying that by saying that I think Walken (3.) sucks, but I really make an effort to report my opinion, and not begrudge anyone who feels differently. You know I love that SBS is or at least might be Sir Stewart's favorite Wilco album and that he's connected with, and I don't find his tastes any lesser or greater than mine because of it. I wish I felt the same way, but I don't and I feel within reason I have every right to discuss that. But if I were to criticize his tastes or his opinions or the opinions and tastes of those who agree with him, I think I'd be out of line. And attacking a poster (4.) for feeling a certain way about an album is far more detrimental to this board, than anyone voicing any opinion no matter the context about an actual album.

 

So "SBS sucks" is an annoying post, but "anyone who thinks SBS sucks has inferior taste to mine" is way scarier in my opinion. (5.)

 

--Mike

 

1.) For instance that asshat mpolak21 has been posting the same "wah-wah, it's not as good as YHF, it's not good as Being There" shit about Sky Blue Sky for two years, it's impossible to engage with him about the album at this point, but at least he's semi self-aware about it, in asmuch that he'll acknowledge it, but not actually stop making the same points about how inferior SBS to the rest of their post-AM catalog over and over and over and over.

2.) The song not the poster

3.) Again I am talking about the song, not the poster, whom I like, or Christopher. I also don't think the song sucks, but I have grown quite tired of hearing it.

4.) Critics, friends of say boo hiss to Nels Cline, and posters who seem generally to be posting just to get a rise out of someone (see: Essox for further examples) are naturally in an entirely different category.

5.) But using endnotes to augment an argument is f-ing terrifying.

[nodep5]

Pre-post note: I made a couple digressions that broke up my argument a little too much, so in honor of David Foster Wallace, prepare for the first (or at least the second) VC post with endnotes.

 

Two things are hurting your case. First of all you have said things along these lines before quite a bit, everyone here is a bit of a bit of broken record, but when it becomes noticeable it gets harder and harder to engage with (1.). This is small potatoes though compared to the second issue...

 

...I think you overshot the point you wanted to make by turning argument slightly personal in away that you might not have intended. For instance when Jesusetc84 or Speed or myself have voiced criticisms about Sky Blue Sky we talk about the album. I might say for instance that Walken (2.) sucks, and to me that is different than saying anyone who likes Walken has no perspective on what good music is. Now perhaps I am implying that by saying that I think Walken (3.) sucks, but I really make an effort to report my opinion, and not begrudge anyone who feels differently. You know I love that SBS is or at least might be Sir Stewart's favorite Wilco album and that he's connected with, and I don't find his tastes any lesser or greater than mine because of it. I wish I felt the same way, but I don't and I feel within reason I have every right to discuss that. But if I were to criticize his tastes or his opinions or the opinions and tastes of those who agree with him, I think I'd be out of line. And attacking a poster (4.) for feeling a certain way about an album is far more detrimental to this board, than anyone voicing any opinion no matter the context about an actual album.

 

So "SBS sucks" is an annoying post, but "anyone who thinks SBS sucks has inferior taste to mine" is way scarier in my opinion. (5.)

 

--Mike

 

1.) For instance that asshat mpolak21 has been posting the same "wah-wah, it's not as good as YHF, it's not good as Being There" shit about Sky Blue Sky for two years, it's impossible to engage with him about the album at this point, but at least he's semi self-aware about it, in asmuch that he'll acknowledge it, but not actually stop making the same points about how inferior SBS to the rest of their post-AM catalog over and over and over and over.

2.) The song not the poster

3.) Again I am talking about the song, not the poster, whom I like, or Christopher. I also don't think the song sucks, but I have grown quite tired of hearing it.

4.) Critics, friends of say boo hiss to Nels Cline, and posters who seem generally to be posting just to get a rise out of someone (see: Essox for further examples) are naturally in an entirely different category.

5.) But using endnotes to augment an argument is f-ing terrifying.

 

 

1. I didn't know my behavior has been so out of line around here? (I guess that is the self aware part)

2. I do value my opinion and I think "Walken" kicks butt in a 70's Little Feat kind of way and I'm glad to hear you don't hate that song, because it is fun and we all need fun.

3. I never post here just to piss someone off or get a rise. I just don't filter my words when I find something silly or absurd. Now I know what I find silly or absurd can be subjective, but I do feel strongly about Wilco and I originally came here to hear from others who feel strongly about this band, and I just find it hard to believe that someone can flat out hate SBS. It truly is not that far removed from the rest of their catalogoue. It isn't like they made a hardcore gangsta rap album (which would be loved by all the hipster critics on this site).

4. I actually liked your endnotes. It made your post seem legimate like an important transcript.

5. Sorry if I came on strong, just when scrolling through a post about the new album I read a post about "20 times better than that godforsaken SBS" I just got the urge to say that is silly/absurd.

[nodep5]

1. I didn't know my behavior has been so out of line around here? (I guess that is the self aware part)

2. I do value my opinion and I think "Walken" kicks butt in a 70's Little Feat kind of way and I'm glad to hear you don't hate that song, because it is fun and we all need fun.

3. I never post here just to piss someone off or get a rise. I just don't filter my words when I find something silly or absurd. Now I know what I find silly or absurd can be subjective, but I do feel strongly about Wilco and I originally came here to hear from others who feel strongly about this band, and I just find it hard to believe that someone can flat out hate SBS. It truly is not that far removed from the rest of their catalogoue. It isn't like they made a hardcore gangsta rap album (which would be loved by all the hipster critics on this site).

4. I actually liked your endnotes. It made your post seem legimate like an important transcript.

5. Sorry if I came on strong, just when scrolling through a post about the new album I read a post about "20 times better than that godforsaken SBS" I just got the urge to say that is silly/absurd.

 

Brent's post directly above that states there isn't ONE good thing about the new album is kind of what I'm talking about. Crap, how about the bass on BBN, how about the double tracked vocals on Solitaire, how about the album art, how about the retail price (FREE)? Who is coming on here to get a rise?

[Guest Jules]

you've come a long way

 

Brent's post directly above that states there isn't ONE good thing about the new album is kind of what I'm talking about. Crap, how about the bass on BBN, how about the double tracked vocals on Solitaire, how about the album art, how about the retail price (FREE)? Who is coming on here to get a rise?

I think it's Brent's honest opinion.

[nodep5]

you've come a long way

 

 

I think it's Brent's honest opinion.

 

 

Fine, but that makes no sense to me, and I have stated this before, but this is a Wilco Message Board. Why come on here to just be negative about the band that the message board is about? I can see someone saying, like my wife for example, "This is easily my least favorite record, I'm struggling to like any of the songs all that much" as oppose to "there isn't one note that sounds right in my head". I would argue if you are not hearing ANYTHING you like on WTA or SBS then you didn't really care for Wilco all that much to begin with, because the central elements (JEFF TWEEDY/HIS VOICE/HIS SONGS) are still present. Maybe not in as good of quality but they exsist. Any if you truly aren't feeling it, why go through the trouble to come on a board to express your inability to find pleasure in this music. Go to whatever band's message board that is pressing your buttons. I'm not sayin that I just want this to be a love fest, but you know.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Fine, but that makes no sense to me, and I have stated this before, but this is a Wilco Message Board. Why come on here to just be negative about the band that the message board is about? I can see someone saying, like my wife for example, "This is easily my least favorite record, I'm struggling to like any of the songs all that much" as oppose to "there isn't one note that sounds right in my head". I would argue if you are not hearing ANYTHING you like on WTA or SBS then you didn't really care for Wilco all that much to begin with, because the central elements (JEFF TWEEDY/HIS VOICE/HIS SONGS) are still present. Maybe not in as good of quality but they exsist. Any if you truly aren't feeling it, why go through the trouble to come on a board to express your inability to find pleasure in this music. Go to whatever band's message board that is pressing your buttons. I'm not sayin that I just want this to be a love fest, but you know.

 

Because this is leisure time, not business or personal, and goddammit, some of us like to invoke hyperbole occassionally. Seriously, let it go or start a thread about this specific beef, maybe? This has gone on for quite a while in a thread that's about reactions to the album one week later, not about fans bashing SBS. Not saying your claim is not legitimate, this is just quickly becoming the wrong venue for this course of discussion.

[Brent Best]

I dont post here very often and I really dont even spend much time reading these threads, but I do find it a tad bit ironic that nodep throws me under the bus...Go check out my "Son Volt" post under "Someone else's Song." Sounds to me like your just musically intolerant.

[IcculusDC]

One week later and I still cant find one good thing to say about this album.

 

Really? Not even one song? A passage in one song? A lick here or there? I assume this is exaggeration.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Really? Not even one song? A passage in one song? A lick here or there? I assume this is exaggeration.

 

That's how I felt a week after SBS dropped. Even the tracks I enjoyed live (Walken and SBS, primarily) sounded dulled or too smooth on the record. In some cases, the little things I DID like made it that much worse - why couldn't the rest of the song/record be like that?

 

So, hyperbolic though his words may be, I think a statement like that can convey the appropriate emotional sentiment.

 

Since when have we outlawed exaggeration on the internet? Isn't that what it's here for?