Favorite vs. Best

[Guest Runaway Jim]

I've had this conversation with a few friends over the years and no doubt brought it up an a few threads around these parts...

 

Are favorite and best the same?

Completely different?

Does it matter depending on the media we're discussing?

Does anyone even care?

 

For example, thinking about the Top 20 Tweedy songs threads going on, I put Outtasite (Outta Mind) at the top of my list. Because it's my favorite song of his. It's the song I am most likely to put on if I have a chance to hear one Wilco song (say on a bar jukebox) and the song I'm most likely to play for someone who's never heard Wilco. It's the one I like the most. It's my FAVORITE. But I'm not too sure I really think it's his BEST song. Songs like Jesus, etc., Poor Places, Misunderstood, A Shot in the Arm (the list could go on and on) are certainly more poetic, lyrically. The song structures are more complex. Maybe they're better. I don't know. I can't make a clear distinction in my mind.

 

However, when it comes to movies, I can clearly distringuish between favorite and best. The Rock is probably my favorite movie. It's funny as hell, great action, totally absurd, some awesome scenes (Ed Harris and Michael Biehn's dialogue!), Nicolas Cage, Ed Harris and Fucking Sean Connery. Come on, it's totally rad. But there's no chance I'm ever going to say it's the best movie I've ever seen. It's clear to me that movies like The Godfather, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, There Will Be Blood (that's right), Gone with the Wind, etc. are better works of art.

 

Any thoughts?

[Dick Ctionary]

fa·vor·ite

Pronunciation: \ˈfā-v(ə-)rət, ˈfā-vərt, chiefly dialect ˈfā-və-ˌrīt\

Function: noun

Etymology: Italian favorito, past participle of favorire to favor, from favore favor, from Latin favor

Date: 1583

1: one that is treated or regarded with special favor or liking; especially : a person who is specially loved, trusted, or provided with favors by someone of high rank or authority

2: a competitor judged most likely to win

 

Function: adjective

Date:1692

constituting a favorite; especially : markedly popula

 

best

Pronunciation: \ˈbest\

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English betst; akin to Old English bōt remedy— more at better

Date: before 12th century superlative of good

1: excelling all others

2: most productive of good : offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction

3: most, largest

[Good Old Neon]

J. Mascis is my favorite guitarist, but I harbor no delusions that he represents the pinnacle of guitar playing evolution - or something like that.

 

J., on the other hand, may beg to differ.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I think in the examples that you provide, the reason you might find it harder to distinguish between "best" and "favorite" songs is the emotion involved? Unless I'm mistaken, I think one of the reasons you like The Rock (which is a fine, fine movie) is because you have zero emotional attachment to it, save maybe some nostalgia. You use music and movies for different emotional purposes?

 

I know that the Top Tweedy Songs list I compiled was definitely not a "favorites" list for me but a "best." Along those lines, I can be a foodie when I'm in the mood, but there are definitely "favorites" in my culinary pallete that I can easily say are not the best of their class.

 

The best way to keep a kitchen clean is to wash thoroughly and stow immediately after every meal. My roommate's favorite way to keep a kitchen clean is to wait a day or two after a meal and then clean superficially.

[gogo]

This very issue came up last night on So You Think You Can Dance. Adam Shankman said that Kayla was the best dancer in the final four, but she probably won't be crowned America's Favorite Dancer.

 

 

I think in a lot of cases it's a comparison of technical excellence, which doesn't touch the heart or soul or whatever, in the same way that a flawed performer or performance can do.

 

The beautiful flaws are what make the imperfect, perfect.

[Good Old Neon]

I’m still trying to recover from the shock of learning that some folks consider The Rock to be the best anything, or that folks even enjoy it a little bit.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

I’m still trying to recover from the shock of learning that some folks consider The Rock to be the best anything, or that folks even enjoy it a little bit.

 

See, that's just assey right there. Had I said that The Rock was the BEST movie ever, I'd be cool with comments like that. But I said it's my FAVORITE, and I don't think it's too kind to knock someone for liking what they like (unless they like kiddie-porn or something).

 

I'm sure your favorite movie is probably not my favorite movie either.

[Good Old Neon]

See, that's just assey right there. Had I said that The Rock was the BEST movie ever, I'd be cool with comments like that. But I said it's my FAVORITE, and I don't think it's too kind to knock someone for liking what they like (unless they like kiddie-porn or something).

 

I'm sure your favorite movie is probably not my favorite movie either.

 

Point taken – you didn’t say it was the best, just your favorite.

 

With that said, I stand by the feelings expressed in my previous comment.

[Beltmann]

I think in a lot of cases it's a comparison of technical excellence, which doesn't touch the heart or soul or whatever, in the same way that a flawed performer or performance can do.

 

The beautiful flaws are what make the imperfect, perfect.

But if a work of technical excellence lacks soul, then isn't it also flawed? (And in my view, that particular flaw is more crippling than any other.) This is why perfectly mass-produced wallpaper, or a Hollywood special effects extravaganza, are generally not considered great art. They have technical virtuosity, but lack the human or spiritual components that most people feel are necessary.

 

To me, best implies assessing art via relatively objective measures while favorite implies an embrace of entirely subjective measures. Still, that distinction is essentially useless. When engaging with something as personal as artistic expression, "objectivity" is ultimately a fool's errand. After all, we aren't judging the production of a widget according to a preconceived rubric; the reason art matters has nothing to do with universal "standards" and everything to do with what it means on a personal level for either the maker or an individual consumer. If we strip subjectivity out of our response to art, we destroy the very reason for it to exist. Our personal relationship to art--as maker or as consumer--is more interesting and more important than any pretense of objectivity.

 

(More importantly, I think The Rock is a lot of fun.)

[Guest Runaway Jim]

Well, you're missing out, my friend. The Rock is just plain awesome.

[gogo]

But if a work of technical excellence lacks soul, then isn't it also flawed? (And in my view, that particular flaw is more crippling than any other.) This is why perfectly mass-produced wallpaper, or a Hollywood special effects extravaganza, are generally not considered great art. They have technical virtuosity, but lack the human or spiritual components that most people feel are necessary.

I'm not saying that the technically excellent work necessarily lacks soul. I'm saying it doesn't touch everyone in that same way. I know there are people around here who feel that Nels Cline's guitar playing is technically excellent, but soulless, and there are just as many people who are deeply touched by his playing. I just think that "favorite" implies an emotional connection that, for whatever reason, is not based on any technical achievement. Which also doesn't necessarily mean that a favorite is not technically excellent, just that that's not where the emotional connection is formed.

 

 

edit: from one of my favorite movies:

 

I fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is: never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well-known is this: never go up against Beltmann when the subjectivity of artistic merit is on the line!

[Good Old Neon]

Michael Bay doesn’t make movies, he directs 90+ minute commercials.

[mpolak21]

More often than not a lot my favorite works of art are considered among the best: The Beatles, David Foster Wallace, Woody Allen from Annie Hall to Husbands and Wives, and even the stuff I like that has suffered a bit of a backlash: Wes Anderson, Neutral Milk Hotel, early Dave Eggers, still tend to get generally positive reviews overall. That's not to say I am incapable of enjoying a bad TNT buddy cop movie or Michael McDonald era Doobie Brothers now and then (the wiseman has the power), but the art I tend to generally really connect with often is on the good end of the critical scale.

 

--Mike

[Guest Runaway Jim]

Michael Bay doesn’t make movies, he directs 90+ minute commercials.

 

In your opinion. I happen to like some of his stuff. Pretty much just The Rock and the original Bad Boys. The rest is kind of garbage. But thanks for your unprovoked input on Michael Bay.

[Sir Stewart]

I was about 14 when I said to my brother "Can I have a favorite movie and think another movie is the best movie? I think Jaws is my favorite movie, but I think Amadeus is probably the best movie." He said "Shut up."

[mpolak21]

In your opinion. I happen to like some of his stuff. Pretty much just The Rock and the original Bad Boys. The rest is kind of garbage. But thanks for your unprovoked input on Michael Bay.

 

You're being way, way to hard on Bad Boys II, he destroyed an entire fucking village in that movie. That has to count for something. It also sets up one of the funniest moments in Hot Fuzz. "Shit just got real."

 

--Mike

[Guest Speed Racer]

But thanks for your unprovoked input on Michael Bay.

 

Really? Seemed like more than fair game to me.

 

That being said, I agree with his sentiment and yours. I love watching them, but I think the only thing I would change about his description would be "120+ minute".

[mpolak21]

I was about 14 when I said to my brother "Can I have a favorite movie and think another movie is the best movie? I think Jaws is my favorite movie, but I think Amadeus is probably the best movie." He said "Shut up."

 

My college roommate and I once spent an entire day doing Amadeus laughs back and forth. When I say there's nothing to do in Wheeling, West Virginia...

 

--Mike

[Good Old Neon]

In your opinion. I happen to like some of his stuff. Pretty much just The Rock and the original Bad Boys. The rest is kind of garbage. But thanks for your unprovoked input on Michael Bay.

 

You’re welcome. It’s difficult for me to harbor fuzzy feelings for someone who goes out of his way to direct movies that provide little, if any, lasting value outside of filling coffers, while other, lesser known directors, wallow in obscurity. Though, you could make the argument that his shitty, soulless movies make it possible for studious to finance smaller, more modestly budgeted films of higher quality, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you. But that does little to improve my feelings towards him or his movies.

[Dude]

Best Comedy of All Time: The Big Lebowski

Favorite Comedy of All Time: The Big Lebowski

 

No conflicts there.

[Guest Runaway Jim]

i really don't give a fuck if you like michael bay movies or not. i don't understand why you give a fuck if i do. it has nothing to do with the OP.

[Beltmann]

It’s difficult for me to harbor fuzzy feelings for someone who goes out of his way to direct movies that provide little, if any, lasting value outside of filling coffers, while other, lesser known directors, wallow in obscurity.

I agree with all of your sentiments, of course, but I'm also not going to let all that baggage convince me that I didn't have a reasonably good time while watching The Rock. That baggage matters a great deal in the larger context of social criticism, but doesn't matter a whit while seeing one particular title--especially one that escapes Bay's worst overkill, and one made early in his career, before he, you know, destroyed the movies.

 

Besides, if other worthwhile directors are wallowing in obscurity, that's not Michael Bay's fault. It's the fault of audiences that would rather see a Michael Bay movie than anything else. I mean, I'd be thrilled if the Dardenne brothers were household names, but their biggest obstacle isn't Michael Bay; it's that most people just don't want to see their movies.

[Guest Speed Racer]

i really don't give a fuck if you like michael bay movies or not. i don't understand why you give a fuck if i do. it has nothing to do with the OP.

 

To confirm: You are angry because you said, "I like The Rock," and someone said, "I don't"?

[MattZ]

Beltmann is my favorite poster.

Beltmann is the best poster.

[Beltmann]

I just think that "favorite" implies an emotional connection that, for whatever reason, is not based on any technical achievement. Which also doesn't necessarily mean that a favorite is not technically excellent, just that that's not where the emotional connection is formed.

Gotcha. Totally agree.

 

edit: from one of my favorite movies:

Also one of my favorites!