BreezyGrass Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Not that I'm in a slump but a lull sort of. Finished a draft for the band I'm in last Tuesday and recorded it and have been tweaking it all week - and plan to lay it down Thursday. I was just pondering what some of you all do to get your songs started. For instance, this last one I capo'd up and played in B which I would really never do. So that was a trick. I'm also reading a whole bunch and ripping phrases and titles from what I'm reading. Just words - so not ripping anyone off. Words that I don't normally use but find to be either really nice or strike a feeling in me. I also used to journal a whole lot but petered out on that. I think that I'm gonna have to get back into that. Anyways - its a rainy Tuesday night and I'm bout to cook dinner and thought I'd get some conversation's going. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why don't you take every fourth word of your post and see what you come up with. If that's no good, try every sixth word. Or every tenth word. Then try it backwards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I'll try that. Thanks for the idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 your approach to do things you never do is a good one...i go thru lulls as well, but you cant right a decent song unless you have lived some to have something decent to write about... i always have textpad going in the background on my laptop--->highlight, copy, paste, repeat... for lyrics...there are all kinds of word games i play to generate stuff...i read a TON, that helps...recently finished collected works of William Blake, the wordsmithery there is mind blowing... for music...NEVER have a guitar/keyboard more than an arms reach away...i like to play with new tunings, quickly try to replicate commercial jingles, play with backwards chord progressions of songs i know...dont think too much til its time to arrange a tune and show it to the band, or if your solo, performance The trick in each case for me is to not try too hard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 While I rarely disagree with Rowboat, our paths diverge a little here. While some of my better songs often just pop into my head, I see nothing wrong with putting some work into the writing process -- songwriting is a craft after all. Like prose writing, the best way to write is often to just, well, write. While it can be extremely frustrating to sit there with a guitar or in front of a piano with nothing happening, it often ends up yielding results. Just strumming random chords or banging on the keys often helps that occasional song pop into my head. Even when the song pops up by itself, it is often just a piece of it, and finding the rest of it usually requires some effort. I can think of very few times where a fully completed song just occurs to me. At the very least it will need a bridge or something somewhere down the road. Musically, I find it often helps to deconstruct a song -- see what you can take out and where it leaves the song. You can also go the opposite direction by changing up some of the chords by adding extensions (6ths, 9ths, major or minor 7ths, etc) or augmenting or diminishing them, etc. Perhaps try adding complementary or contrapuntal melodic lines (and then you can even try dropping out the original melody or chords). I also find that it can help to play around with some different scales or modes to spice up the song. If you try to write a whole song using, say, the phrygian mode, it can sometimes be a bit much (depending on the song), but adding in a few lines using it can add some spice. Try using a structure you don't normally use or even experimenting with some different time signatures, if only for a few bars. In general, experimenting with elements of music theory as learning exercises can really help with writing music. As for lyrics, I often struggle in this area (which is funny, because I'm otherwise a pretty good writer). This may sound stupid, but writing down dreams can often yield some cool imagery or ideas. Attempting to tell unusual stories or dramatize unusual events can lead to something. Finding a central metaphor or a little play on words and writing a song around often works for me. I am going through a bit of a dry spell with songwriting right now, so I should probably take a little of my own advice. Lately, I've been working on filling out some of my studio stuff with additional instrumentation, backing vocals, etc., and I've found that doing that stuff can sometimes lead to new songs altogether. For example, I tried adding some horn parts to a song, and although the horn riffs didn't really fit the song, they did end up becoming the basis for a new song. So anyway, good luck (to both of us). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have read some William Blake - you are are not kidding the man was a wordsmith! I started the topic because there was one started here about a year ago (maybe less) and it helped me to be more pro-active about writing. I've never really written for any of my bands but have started in my newest outfit (going on almost two years) and I find once I get an idea of structure with lyrics and chords they ultimately help shape it. For instance, the latest tune, I had a pretty standard repeating A part and B part and my bassist suggested adding a C part as a substitution and I came up with a chord change I never imagined to complement the song and he thought it rang true. Luckily we had tape rolling and he played it back and sure enough it stuck and caused me to write some more lyrics to fit the mood of the changes. My bassist tends to deconstruct all my tunes which is a good thing though it isn't always what I want to hear. Tomorrow night the whole band will be present to get their prints all over it! So I'm sure it will completely change again. Then hopefully it'll have a real shape before we take it out and play it live. More than likely we will fall on our face with it - and that is always fun! =P I think tape/or any medium to capture these moments are important. It's something we started implementing recently and its proven to be effective! Thanks for the response guys and good luck to us all - hopefully we'll have some more points and tips added! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GtrPlyr Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yesterday I was programming my old Korg drum machine for a demo, and a pattern I came up with inspired a totally new rhythm guitar part for the verses. I often find that messing around and tweaking drum patterns can lead to exciting new things. As for lyrical inspiration, sometimes I find that a good movie will inspire new ideas. Inevitably I'll watch something by Antonioni, Cassavetes, Herzog, or Fassbinder and find myself inspired to create something of my own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I had a drum machine but couldn't figure it out. Got an M-Audio Box and am hoping to hook it up to my laptop once I get a portable hardrive to dump all my iTunes and other things on. I'm hoping to add loops and stuff on drafts and demos. I got it off Woot.com and it was like total - $60. Couldn't pass it up. I'll update when I hook it up. The drummer in the band usually throws curves at me - so that's fun. As for movies - I wrote a tune after watching "This Is England" a couple of years ago. Not the greatest of movies but it stayed with me long enough to produce what I think is a good tune. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
In a little rowboat Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 While I rarely disagree with Rowboat, our paths diverge a little here. While some of my better songs often just pop into my head, I see nothing wrong with putting some work into the writing process -- songwriting is a craft after all. Like prose writing, the best way to write is often to just, well, write. While it can be extremely frustrating to sit there with a guitar or in front of a piano with nothing happening, it often ends up yielding results. Just strumming random chords or banging on the keys often helps that occasional song pop into my head. Even when the song pops up by itself, it is often just a piece of it, and finding the rest of it usually requires some effort. I can think of very few times where a fully completed song just occurs to me. At the very least it will need a bridge or something somewhere down the road. Musically, I find it often helps to deconstruct a song -- see what you can take out and where it leaves the song. You can also go the opposite direction by changing up some of the chords by adding extensions (6ths, 9ths, major or minor 7ths, etc) or augmenting or diminishing them, etc. Perhaps try adding complementary or contrapuntal melodic lines (and then you can even try dropping out the original melody or chords). I also find that it can help to play around with some different scales or modes to spice up the song. If you try to write a whole song using, say, the phrygian mode, it can sometimes be a bit much (depending on the song), but adding in a few lines using it can add some spice. Try using a structure you don't normally use or even experimenting with some different time signatures, if only for a few bars. In general, experimenting with elements of music theory as learning exercises can really help with writing music. As for lyrics, I often struggle in this area (which is funny, because I'm otherwise a pretty good writer). This may sound stupid, but writing down dreams can often yield some cool imagery or ideas. Attempting to tell unusual stories or dramatize unusual events can lead to something. Finding a central metaphor or a little play on words and writing a song around often works for me. I am going through a bit of a dry spell with songwriting right now, so I should probably take a little of my own advice. Lately, I've been working on filling out some of my studio stuff with additional instrumentation, backing vocals, etc., and I've found that doing that stuff can sometimes lead to new songs altogether. For example, I tried adding some horn parts to a song, and although the horn riffs didn't really fit the song, they did end up becoming the basis for a new song. So anyway, good luck (to both of us). Haha...some blanketed flattery there...thx BWW I interpreted the original post as : How to get things STARTED...if i were to even try to begin on the subject of songwriting as a craft or a process, I would overwhelm the constraints of this MB and fry all my braincells in the process... And with that in mind, Ill only put out three thoughts, floodgates up, on my songwriting habits...first, concept: Lennon was brilliant as he took ideas from every possible media (film, notes, TV, newspaper, Ringo's malapropisms)--learn from this. Next, lyrics: the thesaurus is my best friend, and I have a psychosis when it comes to anything sounding cliche... Also, music: I remind myself that if a melody, riff or simple sequence of chords doesnt stick, no amount of backing or instrumentation will fix it...but rewriting, or 'deconstructing it' as mentioned, can...dont settle, and dont be afraid to leave something on the back burner an d fix it with fresh ears...and record EVERYTHING, to critique later... For me, the marriage of music and lyrics is the toughest part, and almost never comes right away...that is the craft part in my case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Another method I sometimes use when I'm really having trouble getting started is to "rewrite" someone else's song. Let's say you've got a riff or melody or something from another song in your head. Well, start playing it, and then start tweaking it until it's no longer recognizable as the original. I'm not talking about knocking the song off -- I'm talking about using it as a jumping-off point to get started. Play a riff backwards; invert the melody (if the next note climbs by a certain interval, drop it that interval instead); take a throw-away fill and expand it to the primary basis of a new song; (as previously mentioned) play the chord progression back (as some have not-quite-accurately claimed Lennon did with the Moonlight Sonata); try the chord progression at different durations or in a different time signature; inject a few extra changes into the progression; or mix all of these techniques together. Hell, you can take an existing chord progression (there are only so many combinations of 3-5 chords) and put an entirely different melody over it. You could even just attempt to play a song in a different style (hmmm, how would this song sound as a sea chanty?) and see what happens. When I finish up with the recording I'm working on now (still needs lyrics and chorus of all things -- it's got a minute-long intro, a significant shift in tempo, and a nice little verse riff, but somehow I don't have a chorus yet -- ass-backwards from how I normally come up with a song), I'm going to enjoy trying some of the suggestions that have been tossed out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 You mentioned ass backwards and I laughed out loud because that is usually the case with my songs. The first verse I write, 99 percent of the time is never the first verse of the song. I always change things around once its on paper and the song demands itself. Do any of you guys record on computer? Like I said I have the M Audio Fasttrack for guitar and I have yet to open it and try it out. I have a lot of tunes/pics/files that I need to remove to an external hard drive so as to not crash the system. I'm gonna get to it this week. But any heads up would be cool! Have a good day all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigWheeledWagon Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 You mentioned ass backwards and I laughed out loud because that is usually the case with my songs. The first verse I write, 99 percent of the time is never the first verse of the song. I always change things around once its on paper and the song demands itself. Do any of you guys record on computer? Like I said I have the M Audio Fasttrack for guitar and I have yet to open it and try it out. I have a lot of tunes/pics/files that I need to remove to an external hard drive so as to not crash the system. I'm gonna get to it this week. But any heads up would be cool! Have a good day all! Yeah, I record on a computer using Cakewalk's Sonar. At this point, I often record stuff as I write, which is a great way to avoid losing ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisFFTA Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 the band i am in recently had the pleasure of working with a truly great Australian songwriter when he produced our latest record. he said he treats songwriting as a job basically. 9-5 he spends writing and puts out 2-3 complete songs a year... in sum, its just something you gotta work at. some people are blessed with the ability to write heaps of songs and some have the ability to put out tremendously well crafted and well written songs. very few can do both, so I wouldnt sweat it too much Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BreezyGrass Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Does it eat up tons of memory recording on the computer? I guess I'll just have to jump in and see what's what with it. I've had it for over a month and a half. Busy working on the house and work in general. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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