Things that make you scratch your head

[bobbob1313]

From Nate Silver's brilliant blog, Fivethirtyeight.com:

 

Right now, it's possible to marry your same-sex partner in Buenos Aires, in Mexico City, in Ames, Iowa, and in Pretoria, South Africa, but not in San Francisco.

 

[Guest Speed Racer]

[Guest Speed Racer]

being said of course, I think last week's decision in Massachussetts was excellent. I think turning this into a state's rights issue might be the only way to go, in the immediate turn, not least of all because the idea of watching that go to the Supreme Court - watching Scalia wrestle with his conservative state's rights sensibilities and his gay-wad oogie woogies - will be a hell of a show. And in the end, all of this really is like Las Vegas; if I'm not going to get married, then I at least want to watch a high-stakes fight or a damned good show.

[bobbob1313]

I think pro-gay marriage advocates are just going to have to accept that until it becomes popularly accepted, it's going to be an almost impossible fight. It's ridiculous and absurd and embarassing, but it's reality.

[Guest Speed Racer]

it's going to be an almost impossible fight

 

Oh, I don't know about that. I mean, I'm a born optimist, I'll grant that, but I still think gay marriage will pass in a majority of states before the majority of the population in any of those states agrees with it. We'll have a much better idea of where we stand once the Prop 8 verdict comes back (it hasn't yet, has it?). We've done a lot in this country without majority support, and I think this will be no different. We battled civil rights and women's rights for decades (and we still are), and the gay marriage battle isn't nearly as old as these movements were when they achieved landmark victories.

[uncool2pillow]

The momentum that this movement has picked up in the last few years has amazed me. My state's (IA) supreme court authorized it about a year ago. While there are many loud protests from the far right, I think most people have either supported it or been ambivalent. A moderate candidate won the Republican primary against a right winger who threatened to challenge the court through executive order. I used to think this was a movement that was going to require patience, but now I think it's coming sooner rather than later.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Personally, I'm shocked at the movement we're seeing within churches. The Presbys, Lutherans, Episcopals and Universalists all met in Minneapolis in the past year or so (separately, for their general assemblies), and they've all been very fashion-forward about this whole gay thing. PCUSA and ECLA approved gay clergy, and PCUSA only struck down gay marriage by the tiniest of margins (being raised Presbyterian myself, if I were going to get married in a church I wouldn't mind it being a Presbyterian church).

 

I think the more churches that adopt these policies, the more likely we are to see a shift in popular support, whether or not the h8ers actually belong to these churches or not.

[Lammycat]

Probably end up with just more sects, no?

[Synthesizer Patel]

Probably end up with just more sects, no?

 

anal sects. sorry.

you crazy americans and your intolerances always make me laugh.

it's funny, actually, because a lot of couples i know (straight couples, the only gay couple i know is one of my uncles and i don't talk to him about marriage), don't really want to get married any more. i know quite a few who have children and have been together for many years, but don't feel the need to get married, so i thought there was a shift away from the whole marriage thing anyway.

also, i think in the uk gay couples can get married in a church, but aren't allowed to have the same christian service - and the government are currently going about changing the law on this. so it's not like every country apart from america is fully accepting of it, just yet.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Probably end up with just more sects, no?

 

So far, no. To date, only one or two Lutheran churches in Minnesota have left the ELCA since they adopted a policy to ordain monogomously GLBT clergy last summer. Most accept the policy as a-okay for the institution as a whole, and decide whether or not to implement the policies at their own churches. The benefits of belonging to a larger sect seem to outweight the troubles of flying without a sect, joining an existing one or starting their own.

 

i thought there was a shift away from the whole marriage thing anyway

 

There might be, for people who have a choice in the matter. Other people actually want to make the choice for themselves - gasp!

[Lammycat]

There's no shift away from marriage. People just have the buy-out option easier.

[Synthesizer Patel]

There's no shift away from marriage. People just have the buy-out option easier.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250207/Marriage-rates-drop-lowest-level-1862.html

 

i was talking about the uk.