Wisconsin is the New Egypt

[Beltmann]

An hour ago I was standing in a park, listening to Mahlon Mitchell at a rally in West Bend, the heart of ultra-right-wing Washington County. Lots of energy and lots of enthusiasm about getting out the vote. Hopefully tomorrow's turnout will be historic and befuddle the pollsters.

[ih8music]

Bringing this thread back from the dead of 2011.

 

Tomorrow us folks in WI are going vote wether or not to recall Scott Walker as governor. Historic no doubt. Interesting for sure.

 

Current polls have Scott Walker either tied with his opponent (Tom Barrett) or up by 7 percentage points.

 

Who knows?

I'd be shocked if Walker doesn't win. Yes polls fall into that range, but most I've seen show Walker with a comfortable lead.

 

Hopefully all you WI dems get out there and prove me wrong.

[KevinG]

So it begins.

 

It is a good thing the Attorneys General (JB VanHollen a Republican) is sending out teams to several cities in Wisconsin to monitor "voter fraud." The majority of the cities they are going to happen to vote (wait for it) Democratic.

 

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20120603/APC010405/306030086/

 

Just saying.

[Wendy]

And robocalls have been reported suggesting it's not necessary to go vote if you signed the recall petition.

 

That's despicable.

[bleedorange]

And robocalls have been reported suggesting it's not necessary to go vote if you signed the recall petition.

 

That's despicable.

 

That's funny.

[Tweedling]

How has the economy been doing in WI since Walker was elected?

[KevinG]

How has the economy been doing in WI since Walker was elected?

 

Depends, I could show numbers going both ways. Onside says job loss, the other says growth, one side says not enough growth, whatever.

 

It has never been about the economy for me. He has been the way Gov Walker has handled himself in issuing his reforms. It has been about the cuts to education, BadgerCare, and whatnot. I have friends who have seen their paychecks cut by close to 1200 dollars a month, because of governor Walker. I have friends who will be dropped by BadgerCare because of Walker. I see my school district's funding decreased and programs cut because of Governor Walker.

 

I am all for reform, and it is needed, but the way Gov Walker went about it, refusing to compromise, refusing even to listen, is just plain wrong.

 

Plus the whole John Doe investigation is really troublesome. There is more to that story then has been presented, and I feel some big things will come out of it.

[Tweedling]

Is it true there is a budget surplus now? This is just what I've heard and not sure I believe much these days.

[KevinG]

And robocalls have been reported suggesting it's not necessary to go vote if you signed the recall petition.

 

That's despicable.

 

That's funny.

 

That is horrible. If they find out whatever group is responsible I hope they are punished.

 

Bleed I am going to call you out on your "That's funny" statement. It is not, there absolutely nothing funny about it. Every US citizen has the right to vote. You may not agree with a person's views, but everyone has the right to vote.

[bleedorange]

That is horrible. If they find out whatever group is responsible I hope they are punished.

 

Bleed I am going to call you out on your "That's funny" statement. It is not, there absolutely nothing funny about it. Every US citizen has the right to vote. You may not agree with a person's views, but everyone has the right to vote.

 

I think it's funny for a variety of reasons. Mainly for the fact that a group thinks it would work and the fact that it might actually work. I can just imagine getting the phone call: "Hey honey! Good news, turns out we actually don't have to go vote today. Yippee!!"

[Guest Jules]

It has never been about the economy for me. He has been the way Gov Walker has handled himself in issuing his reforms. It has been about the cuts to education, BadgerCare, and whatnot. I have friends who have seen their paychecks cut by close to 1200 dollars a month, because of governor Walker. I have friends who will be dropped by BadgerCare because of Walker. I see my school district's funding decreased and programs cut because of Governor Walker.

 

I am all for reform, and it is needed, but the way Gov Walker went about it, refusing to compromise, refusing even to listen, is just plain wrong.

 

Sometimes managing requires difficult decisions. He seems willing to make them.

 

And I have several manufacturing customers in Wisconsin. They're all doing very well.

[KevinG]

Sometimes managing requires difficult decisions. He seems willing to make them.

 

And I have several manufacturing customers in Wisconsin. They're all doing very well.

 

You see managing, I see pushing an agenda that is not needed.

[Guest Jules]

I see a governor doing his job.

[IRememberDBoon]

Sometimes managing requires difficult decisions. He seems willing to make them.

 

And I have several manufacturing customers in Wisconsin. They're all doing very well.

 

bwark!

[KevinG]

I see a governor doing his job.

 

I don't think any of us will change each others mind. You see what the Walker did as fine, I do not. We each could bring up statistics, anecdotes, whatever. And you know it won't matter. The back and forth is tedious.

 

But you know what, I live in Wisconsin, I used my right to vote, I feel proud of my vote.

 

Beyond what got WI to this point, it will be interesting where we will go from here.

 

My predictions, the Election will be so close it will end up being in a recount. We won't know who won until mid June. Tensions are gonna be really high here.

 

Also predictable spin: If Walker wins, dems say he bought the election without of state money. If Barrett wins, GOP says union thugs coerced voters through intimation, and won through voter fraud. Both the WI is doomed because X won.

 

BTW it the spin has already begun:

http://nation.foxnews.com/wisconsin-recall-election/2012/06/05/eyewitness-alleges-democrat-union-vote-fraud-wisconsin

[Beltmann]

Sometimes managing requires difficult decisions. He seems willing to make them.

There's nothing "difficult" or courageous about a decision to ram through radical laws simply because you control both houses of the legislature. In fact, that's the definition of taking the easy route. Finding common ground, finding ways to unify rather than divide, finding ways to not rip apart a state--that's managing. What he did was conquer and vilify not based on facts but on political calculation; scapegoating is not leadership.

 

To answer the question about the WI economy... there are different measures, but even the most optimistic still shows WI lagging behind nearly every state in growth. Even accounting for Walker's still unverified numbers, WI ranks 47th in job growth.

[kidsmoke]

There's nothing "difficult" or courageous about a decision to ram through radical laws simply because you control both houses of the legislature. In fact, that's the definition of taking the easy route. Finding common ground, finding ways to unify rather than divide, finding ways to not rip apart a state--that's managing. What he did was conquer and vilify not based on facts but on political calculation; scapegoating is not leadership.

 

To answer the question about the WI economy... there are different measures, but even the most optimistic still shows WI lagging behind nearly every state in growth. Even accounting for Walker's still unverified numbers, WI ranks 47th in job growth.

 

I don't live in WI, but it's my dad's home state, so I feel an emotional connection. Watching Scott Walker's actions there playing out, governor vs. citizens, has horrified me...this is the very worst sort of governing, in my mind. Thanks, Beltmann, for putting my feelings into words better than I could. Good luck today, Wisconsin.

 

And in reference to the robocalls trying to trick people into not voting...wow. That's Dick Nixon-level dirty politics. Whatever you can get away with, huh?

 

(Weirdly enough, we've got a local guy running for some office, by the name of Richard T. Nixon. I wonder if it will help him or hurt him to carry that name?)

[KevinG]

Well all major news organizations here are reporting Walker wins.

 

Well I guess the people of Wisconsin have spoken.

 

I can only assume that tomorrow jobs will be flooding into the state.

[ih8music]

Sorry guys. Wish it didn't turn out like this, but a 7:1 money advantage is hard to overcome. Let's just keep the good guy in the WH come November.

[Tweedling]

Most of what I've read says that WI is trending to having a balanced budget by '13. Looks like something to be proud of. It's more than we can say as a country.

[KevinG]

Most of what I've read says that WI is trending to having a balanced budget by '13. Looks like something to be proud of. It's more than we can say as a country.

 

A balance budget at what cost? Cuts to Education, cuts to the poor. The budget was balanced on backs of the middle class and the poor.

[Tweedling]

I read at ABC news that a high school teacher at Nicolet Union High School District making $74,431 dropped to $72,125 and another teacher salary at Abbotsford School District dropped from $48,805 to $48,415.

[Beltmann]

My wife and I are both teachers in Wisconsin. When you factor in everything--changes in salary schedules, changes in health insurance and coverage, changes in retirement--our household income dipped about $12,000. Meanwhile, most Wisconsinites received a tax break. That's how Walker defines "shared sacrifice."

 

Walker has been very successful in cherry-picking and distorting facts in order to demonize teachers, labeling them as the "haves" pitted against the "have-nots," even though, when total compensation is considered, teachers were already making less than their private-sector counterparts of similar education, experience, and workload. Still, the real offense is not the required higher employee contributions to health care and retirement, which were reasonable requests to make (especially if all other citizens were being asked to somehow sacrifice, too). The real offense is the way the law knee-capped the unions, essentially stripping them of all bargaining rights related to workplace conditions, which is something Walker admitted had nothing to do with balancing the budget and everything to do with political punishment. Plus, the way the law is written, Act 10 forbids teachers from ever keeping up with cost-of-living increases and caps future raises. In other words, Walker argued that teachers must always sacrifice in times of economic difficulty, but forevermore cannot benefit in times of prosperity. Is that how the private sector works?

 

This actually gets far more complex when you consider many other factors, such as the history of the QEO (Qualified Economic Offer) law enacted in 1993 that artificially limited teacher compensation for 18 years, resulting in a startling loss of real spending power, even during the boom times of the '90s. No such thing exists in the private sector. You could argue that, for Wisconsin teachers, the recession began in 1993--and Walker somehow still managed to paint teachers as the "haves," mostly because, in times of fear and crisis, voters are often looking for a scapegoat. Taking advantage of that, Walker created a simplistic cartoon that was easy to sell to voters looking for somebody to blame for the poor economy. That's not leadership, it's manipulation and exploitation. When you purposely convince half the state to literally loathe their hard-working, decent, middle-class neighbors for no reason other than they decided to become teachers, you are an indecent man.

 

No one thought Walker was going to lose today. In a way, I'm glad it's just over. I'm tired of trying to defend my choice of profession, tired of explaining that I actually work 11 hours a day not five, no matter what talk radio says, and trying to explain my economic realities to my neighbors who make way more than me with far less education and still think I haven't earned my compensation package. When I decided to become a teacher I knew that I would earn less money than my abilities could earn in the private sector, and I agreed to that because I wanted to do a job that mattered in my community. I was prepared to make less, but I wasn't prepared to be vilified for choosing to serve my hometown.

[ih8music]

anyone who demonizes public school teachers is an asshole, by definition. they are some of the hardest working, least respected individuals I have ever met.

 

"simplistic cartoon" indeed.

[Tweedling]

That sucks Beltmann. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things get better for you.