Wisconsin is the New Egypt

[ih8music]

That sucks Beltmann. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things get better for you.

 

Huh? You were just just praising Walker's actions. Don't pretend to be sorry for someone impacted by them.

[uncool2pillow]

My wife and I are both teachers in Wisconsin. When you factor in everything--changes in salary schedules, changes in health insurance and coverage, changes in retirement--our household income dipped about $12,000. Meanwhile, most Wisconsinites received a tax break. That's how Walker defines "shared sacrifice."

 

Walker has been very successful in cherry-picking and distorting facts in order to demonize teachers, labeling them as the "haves" pitted against the "have-nots," even though, when total compensation is considered, teachers were already making less than their private-sector counterparts of similar education, experience, and workload. Still, the real offense is not the required higher employee contributions to health care and retirement, which were reasonable requests to make (especially if all other citizens were being asked to somehow sacrifice, too). The real offense is the way the law knee-capped the unions, essentially stripping them of all bargaining rights related to workplace conditions, which is something Walker admitted had nothing to do with balancing the budget and everything to do with political punishment. Plus, the way the law is written, Act 10 forbids teachers from ever keeping up with cost-of-living increases and caps future raises. In other words, Walker argued that teachers must always sacrifice in times of economic difficulty, but forevermore cannot benefit in times of prosperity. Is that how the private sector works?

 

This actually gets far more complex when you consider many other factors, such as the history of the QEO (Qualified Economic Offer) law enacted in 1993 that artificially limited teacher compensation for 18 years, resulting in a startling loss of real spending power, even during the boom times of the '90s. No such thing exists in the private sector. You could argue that, for Wisconsin teachers, the recession began in 1993--and Walker somehow still managed to paint teachers as the "haves," mostly because, in times of fear and crisis, voters are often looking for a scapegoat. Taking advantage of that, Walker created a simplistic cartoon that was easy to sell to voters looking for somebody to blame for the poor economy. That's not leadership, it's manipulation and exploitation. When you purposely convince half the state to literally loathe their hard-working, decent, middle-class neighbors for no reason other than they decided to become teachers, you are an indecent man.

 

No one thought Walker was going to lose today. In a way, I'm glad it's just over. I'm tired of trying to defend my choice of profession, tired of explaining that I actually work 11 hours a day not five, no matter what talk radio says, and trying to explain my economic realities to my neighbors who make way more than me with far less education and still think I haven't earned my compensation package. When I decided to become a teacher I knew that I would earn less money than my abilities could earn in the private sector, and I agreed to that because I wanted to do a job that mattered in my community. I was prepared to make less, but I wasn't prepared to be vilified for choosing to serve my hometown.

anyone who demonizes public school teachers is an asshole, by definition. they are some of the hardest working, least respected individuals I have ever met.

 

"simplistic cartoon" indeed.

 

Beltmann makes a great case against Walker and demonstrates how his policies really affect decent people, then ih8music follows it up with rhetoric on par with Rush Limbaugh. Very disappointing. Help me out here, didn't a court strike down the collective bargaining limitations?

[Tweedling]

 

 

Huh? You were just just praising Walker's actions. Don't pretend to be sorry for someone impacted by them.

Beltmann laid out a real life situation that has affected him and his family and for that I am sorry. All I did was comment on a balanced budget. Hardly a praise of Walker. I was trying to get a true reading of how it was going in WI. You sir are the only one here pretending.....pretending you know how I feel.

[KevinG]

Beltmann makes a great case against Walker and demonstrates how his policies really affect decent people, then ih8music follows it up with rhetoric on par with Rush Limbaugh. Very disappointing. Help me out here, didn't a court strike down the collective bargaining limitations?

 

A court did but then it was overturned by a higher court, supreme if memory serves. Futhermore, Scott Walker has continued to further attack teacher's pay in other administrate rule change.

 

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/scott-walker-s-war-on-teachers/article_db34c33a-8f4d-11e1-9124-001a4bcf887a.html

 

Most of what I've read says that WI is trending to having a balanced budget by '13. Looks like something to be proud of. It's more than we can say as a country.

 

So you still proud, after hearing Beltmann's story?

 

You say you are sorry about what has happened to Beltmann, but you can see how that comes off as disingenuous.

[Tweedling]

 

So you still proud, after hearing Beltmann's story?

 

You say you are sorry about what has happened to Beltmann, but you can see how that comes off as disingenuous.

I would be proud to have a balanced state budget.

I am sorry about what happened to Beltmann.

The End

 

[ih8music]

Beltmann laid out a real life situation that has affected him and his family and for that I am sorry. All I did was comment on a balanced budget. Hardly a praise of Walker. I was trying to get a true reading of how it was going in WI. You sir are the only one here pretending.....pretending you know how I feel.

 

But you need to understand the ramifications of what Walker's actions have produced. Yes, on paper it might look good (depending on which numbers you care about) but there are casualties inflicted on regular middle-class people by these actions.

 

If you are truly sorry about what happened to Beltmann's family, then I'd hope your opinion of Scott Walker and his like (and the policies they advocate) has changed.

 

If not, then... quite honestly... shut the fuck up with your fake sympathy. Don't be an advocate for a policy and then turn around and pretend to be sorry for what happens when it plays out.

[Doug C]

I would be proud to have a balanced state budget.

I am sorry about what happened to Beltmann.

The End

I am trying to remember logic class from 30 years ago... something about syllogisms seems to apply here but i can't quite get it. Damn.

[ih8music]

Beltmann makes a great case against Walker and demonstrates how his policies really affect decent people, then ih8music follows it up with rhetoric on par with Rush Limbaugh. Very disappointing.

 

and how is what I said Limbaugh-esque rhetoric? I said that people who demonize public school teachers are assholes... which was a part of Beltmann's story re: Walker. My wife is a teacher and I have a bunch of friends who are teachers. The notion that they are overpaid, lazy leeches on society is absurd... and insulting.

[IRememberDBoon]

dont states have to balance budgets ever year??? wtf is tweedling talking about?

[Tweedling]

Do they? How's that working out?

[IRememberDBoon]

its constitutional brah

[Tweedling]

Hahaha ok. So there are no defecits or shortfalls for meeting the "constitutional balanced budgets"?

[JUDE]

Call me what you will, but I’d rather have people, who fall for robo-callers telling them they didn't need to vote because they signed a petition, not voting.

Something about an educated electorate or something.

[ih8music]

Call me what you will, but I’d rather have people, who fall for robo-callers telling them they didn't need to vote because they signed a petition, not voting.

 

Something about an educated electorate or something.

 

I haven't seen any evidence that those robo calls actually happened, and even if they did I doubt they had much of an effect on the outcome.

 

Walker had a huge $ advantage; that's a very big reason for why he won. God Bless America.

[IRememberDBoon]

Call me what you will, but I’d rather have people, who fall for robo-callers telling them they didn't need to vote because they signed a petition, not voting.

 

Something about an educated electorate or something.

 

better than watching fox news to decide who to vote for

[uncool2pillow]

and how is what I said Limbaugh-esque rhetoric? I said that people who demonize public school teachers are assholes... which was a part of Beltmann's story re: Walker. My wife is a teacher and I have a bunch of friends who are teachers. The notion that they are overpaid, lazy leeches on society is absurd... and insulting.

Hateful, divisive rhetoric. People who disagree with me are assholes? The truth is, I dislike glorifying ALL public school teachers as much as I hate demonizing all of us. I've worked with too many who give ammunition to our critics. Most teachers I work with work long hours, are committed to all of their students, and never rest on their laurels. However, there are more than a few teaching the same lessons they were teaching 25 years ago, Like most professions there are excellent, mediocre, and crappy. The NEA hasn't helped their cause. A union's job is to protect all their members, and they have done it well, minimizing the effect that poor teachers have in the classroom. The Walker/Tea Party reaction is ridiculous. The focus should be on preparing teachers for excellence, effective professional development and evaluation, and weeding out of ineffective teachers; not eliminating collective bargaining and treating public employees like 2nd class citizens.

[ih8music]

Hateful, divisive rhetoric. People who disagree with me are assholes?

 

People who insult & demonize an entire profession (which is, I dunno, 95+%, of hard working, motivated & genuinely compassionate people) based on the fact that they belong to a UNION which advocates political causes counter to your personal beliefs == assholes? Yes. I don't back away from that one bit.

 

The focus should be on preparing teachers for excellence, effective professional development and evaluation, and weeding out of ineffective teachers; not eliminating collective bargaining and treating public employees like 2nd class citizens.

 

Couldn't agree more. We need to make teaching a MORE attractive career choice, not something you fall back into when other things don't pan out.

[KevinG]

Hateful, divisive rhetoric. People who disagree with me are assholes? The truth is, I dislike glorifying ALL public school teachers as much as I hate demonizing all of us. I've worked with too many who give ammunition to our critics. Most teachers I work with work long hours, are committed to all of their students, and never rest on their laurels. However, there are more than a few teaching the same lessons they were teaching 25 years ago, Like most professions there are excellent, mediocre, and crappy. The NEA hasn't helped their cause. A union's job is to protect all their members, and they have done it well, minimizing the effect that poor teachers have in the classroom. The Walker/Tea Party reaction is ridiculous. The focus should be on preparing teachers for excellence, effective professional development and evaluation, and weeding out of ineffective teachers; not eliminating collective bargaining and treating public employees like 2nd class citizens.

 

I don't think anyone would say that the public school system is perfect. It has some deep flaws and is in need of fixing. It has seemed to me that one of the goals of the republicans is to privatize education. Make the system bad enough to make people want private schools over public. One of the first step is vilifying teacher unions and underfunding the system.

 

Mark my words you will see an even greater expanse into the school voucher system in WI.

 

In fact in 2011 he did just that, http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/state_edwatch/2011/06/wisconsin_approves_voucher_expansion.html

 

So far Walker has reduced teacher's take home pay, made them them the villains, cut funding to public education by 1.6 billion, and increased funding to private and religious schools. You can see where we are heading WI.

[IRememberDBoon]

Walker is obviously a doucherocket. Why would someone do away with collective bargaining???

[Doug C]

The following was in the comment section in a story about the WI recall at npr.org. Wow. Comment sections can have a very high amusement factor. I just completed my 26th year of teaching high school. It warms my heart knowing that I am highly respected by a fellow citizen. Many more fine citizens have clicked "recommend". Thanks, ya'll.

 

Hugh Everett (evangel-of-self-reliance) wrote:

There are many more of us taxpayers than there are of you government employees. You work for us, and we can no longer afford you, so you're fired. Hasta la vista.

 

Workers in the private sector don't have pensions, lifetime medical, and the ability to retire at age 50. They hate public school teachers because America spends more money on education than any country in the world, yet we have horrible schools.

 

We've finally figured out who keeps electing Democrats, and now we are focussing on the source: Government Workers.

Wednesday, June 06, 2012 6:04:22 PM

[IRememberDBoon]

forget that chump Doug. he lives in make believe republican land where we can privatize schools or increase "choice"

 

what the hell happens to the schools that arent "chosen"???

 

thank you for your service.

[uncool2pillow]

Yes. I don't back away from that one bit.

Neither would Rush, or Bill Maher. I disdain both.

 

We need to make teaching a MORE attractive career choice, not something you fall back into when other things don't pan out.

 

The 2nd half of that sentence is maybe your most offensive statement yet, albeit not intentionally.

[IRememberDBoon]

yeah Rush and Bill Maher are just alike.

[uncool2pillow]

Pretty much. Condescending, can't stand being criticized, smarmy. Just because you agree with one of them doesn't make their style any different. Jon Stewart is liberal, but gets lots of conservatives on his show because he treats them with the respect they deserve (meaning very little, in some instances). There's probably a conservative equivalent to Stewart that I cannot think of right now. Limbaugh and Maher are -- for lack of a better term -- wingnuts. They yell, scream, belittle. Obviously, they aren't always equally obnoxious and Rush would probably score higher on the dishonesty meter, but they are for most intents and purposes, opposite sides of the same coin.

[uncool2pillow]

One more point. I used to enjoy both. Limbaugh was very, very funny and kind of iconoclastic in the late 80s and early 90s. It was only after Clinton was elected and Limbaugh saw himself as the voice of the opposition that he really turned to complete obnoxiousness. Maher was good on Politically Incorrect, but also began to take himself too seriously.