Wisconsin is the New Egypt

[Guest Jules]

It's a state issue. There is no precedent for the President to give his "opinion" on this type of matter.

[calvino]

It's a state issue. There is no precedent for the President to give his "opinion" on this type of matter.

 

I think Teddy Roosevelt did and I kinda think Reagen did, too. Maybe not specifically state union workers though, which is probably your point.

[LouieB]

Yea, the unions are not that happy with Obama at all. Generally speaking union issues ARE a federal issue, that is why we have the NLRB and the mediation service, both of which are federal and include libraries of federal labor law. Public employees are subject to state regulation. But philosophy over a group of workers right to organize and collectively bargain ultimately does come under the federal juristiction.

 

(Oh yea..slaverly...that was all about states rights too...I guess some states would want that back also if they could.)

 

LouieB

[ikol]

(Oh yea..slaverly...that was all about states rights too...I guess some states would want that back also if they could.)

 

[uncool2pillow]

This should calm some of you union bashers down...

 

10 things you should know(about the so called Wisconsin budget crisis)

 

1. The deficit is a made-up crisis.

Like most states, Wisconsin is struggling in the recession, but the state government isn’t actually broke. The state legislature’s fiscal bureau estimated the state would end the year with a $121 million balance. Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — but it is not because of an increase in worker wages or benefits. According to the Capital Times, it is because “Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for corporate and special-interest groups in January.” Nice. A man-made “crisis” as an excuse to push neoliberal cutbacks: Shock Doctrine, anyone?

 

2. Even if there was a deficit, blame Wall Street — not the workers.

The economy isn’t crumbling because state workers in Madison have decent pensions. It’s because Wall Street bankers stole our money, Bush and now Obama have us in two trillion-dollar wars, and states like Wisconsin keep spending more on prisons than schools. What do the rich pay? According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, corporate tax income has fallen by half since 1981 and over two-thirds of Wisconsin corporations pay zero taxes.

 

3. The Green Bay Packers are with the people.

They won the Super Bowl. They’re owned by the people of Green Bay, not some schmuck billionaire. And now the Pack is standing in solidarity with their union brothers and sisters. If only Brady Poppinga (pictured below) would tackle Scott Walker like that. If the green and gold are down, you already know what side to roll with. (I heard Walker is a Vikings fan, anyway.)

 

4. This is not “just another Madison protest.”

Madison is famous for its progressive tradition, but this is more than just another march down State Street. This struggle is engaging people across the state — not just Madison and Milwaukee, but LaCrosse, Eau Claire, and outside Gov. Walker’s home in Wauwatosa. This struggle is multi-racial, multi-generational, and multi-issue. Working- and middle-class white folks (the majority population) might finally realize that long-term unity is stronger than short-term tax relief. Looking for the progressive antidote to the Tea Party? They’re brewing something in the Badger State.

 

5. Public worker unions were founded in Wisconsin.

The first union for public employees was actually started in Madison in 1932, to ensure living wages for the workers and end political patronage for government jobs. The biggest public union, AFSCME, was born right where the protests are happening today in Madison. Wisconsin has always had a dual legacy — home to the last Socialist mayor in the country (Frank Zeidler of Milwaukee) and the ultimate anti-Communist himself, Joe McCarthy; more recently, both progressive Sen. Russ Feingold and immigrant-basher Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner — but the Dairyland’s populist ethos can be traced back to the Progressive Era and its public unions.

 

6. Hurting public workers will not help you get a better job.

Many conservatives, and even some liberals, argue that we need to “bring public workers’ benefits down to the level of private workers.” First off, it’s not true that public workers are better off — they usually get lower wages in exchange for better benefits. More important, though, is the idea that we should raise all boats, rather than continue this race to the bottom. Russ Feingold said yesterday that “Republicans are trying to pit private workers against their public counterparts.” No more divide and conquer. Yes, people with a private-sector job (or, people who like 50% of black men in Milwaukee don’t have a job at all) have a right to be angry: but that anger should be reserved for the companies who are downsizing and outsourcing those jobs, not for middle school teachers and the lunch lady.

 

7. This is about more than unions.

This is about public education, affirmative action, immigrant rights, stopping foreclosures, and basic human rights. This is about how much the Radical Right thinks they can get away with. This is about drawing a line in the sand — if first they come for the unions, who will they come for next?

 

8. The country is watching Wisconsin.

What happens this week in Madison has national ramifications. Right now, everyone’s eyes are on Wisconsin. The governor of Ohio and Tennessee are threatening to adopt similar legislation — and Obama has his own conservative budget proposal at the federal level. If they can force it through relatively liberal Wisconsin, your state could be next.

 

9. Wisconsin was watching Egypt.

News travels fast, and uprisings inspire each other across continents. The protesters out on the Madison streets watched the millions of Egyptians who successfully, nonviolently took down their dictator. Many of them are now carrying signs like the one below calling Scott Walker “the Mubarak of the Midwest.” And while the American media loves the union workers that toppled a dictator in Egypt, CNN has little sympathy for the workers that will be silenced right here in the heartland.

 

10. Who’s Capitol? OUR Capitol!

This is our moment. Our state. Our growing movement to change the course of the country. The legislature could vote as soon as today on Walker’s bill — unless the real Badgers stand up to stop him.

 

The protests are escalating every day, inside and outside the Capitol. To all my Madison folks, stay strong and know that we’re with you. To the rest of the country, spread the word, donate to the legal defense funds, and make sure your own states don’t go down this same road.

 

Link:

http://joshhealey.org/

I have no opinion about the specific issues in Wisconsin. I am a fiscally conservative public employee who has benefited from collective bargaining rights. I am, in no way defending the bill in Wisconsin OR the position of the protesters. I just think there are several weak points in this post.

 

2. The federal deficit has little to to with the state deficit. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are incredibly expensive, but not really tied to a state's deficit.

 

3. Who CARES how the Packers feel?? Oh, wait, it's Wisconsin. Of course people who became millionaires in part through collective bargaining are going to be against getting rid of it. Union members support another union? Big surprise, big deal!

 

5. Wisconsin has a history of progressiveness, so it's wrong to be against it?? I guess those in the deep south who are for civil rights had better change their tune!!

 

7. To me, this is the weakest argument. It's exactly what hard line conservatives would say to argue against gay marriage. If "they" get away with this, what next?

 

I have watched the protests, and I understand the anger that public employees feel. I am just tired of political arguments that portray the other side as evil. It seems that many of those who supported John Stewart's theme and those who supported a return to civility following the shooting in Tucson really only wanted conservatives to be sane and civil.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

So, the unions have offered to make specific concessions. The governor says that he needs to get rid of collective bargaining rights regardless of any concessions so that municipalities and countries can balance their budgets. So if the governor doesn't believe that most public employees should be allowed to collectively bargain in a relatively financially sound state, does that mean that no one should be able to collectively bargain?

 

Oh, and regarding number 2: Of course they're connected. The whole subtext of this situation is that the general public needs their pound of flesh from the public employees because of the poor economy. The bad economy is a result of that credit default swap nonsense.

[uncool2pillow]

Don't forget, this recession has caused plenty of private sector workers to give much more than a pound of flesh.

[calvino]

Don't forget, this recession has caused plenty of private sector workers to give much more than a pound of flesh.

 

I guess I don't see your point. Do you think the above notion is lost on those in Madison and the rest of the country, who are fighting for what the earned? Definitely something has to give on both sides, but I don't think it's right to presume that people who are fighting for their own worker's rights don't realize that private sector workers (which includes me) are also hurting.

[uncool2pillow]

Duck-billed catechist said, rightfully, that this situation is not the fault of public employees, but the whole credit default swap system. Lots of other innocent people have paid the price for what happened. Public employees can't be the only ones who are immune from the economic collapse no matter who's to blame. Tax revenues are down and it's not just because of lower tax rates, but lower tax revenues due to less money being pumped into the economy.

[calvino]

Duck-billed catechist said, rightfully, that this situation is not the fault of public employees, but the whole credit default swap system. Lots of other innocent people have paid the price for what happened. Public employees can't be the only ones who are immune from the economic collapse no matter who's to blame. Tax revenues are down and it's not just because of lower tax rates, but lower tax revenues due to less money being pumped into the economy.

 

I agree and I would suspect some (perhaps even a slight majority) of public employees agree, but that doesn't mean that unions should loose their collective bargaining rights, which I see in a few posts down you kinda agree with. I guess there are two issues here: 1. Pay/Benefits and 2. Collective Bargaining Rights. Does the pension system have to be severely restructured, yes, but I don't think the workers need to loose their rights in order to do it. Should unions give up some of what they fought for, perhaps yes (and many unions have), but they should be able to get to the table and do so.

[uncool2pillow]

that doesn't mean that unions should loose their collective bargaining rights, which I see in a few posts down you kinda agree with.

Absolutely not! I think the rest of your post is pretty much on target, but I have in no way endorsed the end of collective bargaining, nor would I. The only reason I waded into this thread is because I thought the original post I responded to had some pretty bad reasoning that needed to be pointed out.

[calvino]

Absolutely not! I think the rest of your post is pretty much on target, but I have in no way endorsed the end of collective bargaining, nor would I. The only reason I waded into this thread is because I thought the original post I responded to had some pretty bad reasoning that needed to be pointed out.

 

Poor wording on my part, I meant that you agreed that they should not loose their rights.

[LouieB]

Instead of trying to destroy the collective bargaining rights of workers, go back to the bargaining table and make the case that pensions and benefits need to be restructured. That's what is SUPPOSED to happen.

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

Truth!

[Beltmann]

Public employees can't be the only ones who are immune from the economic collapse no matter who's to blame.

Immune? Do you really think teachers haven't already sacrificed a great deal in the wake of the Great Recession? Would you like me to explain how I recently accepted a pay freeze and, before that, a devastating step freeze? Would you like me explain the slow erosion in medical benefits over the last few years? Should I list the names of dozens of colleagues who were let go in the last few years? Should I explain how I routinely work 70 hours a week because of the increased workload as a result of those layoffs?

 

And our losses will never be restored, even after the economy recovers. Unlike the private sector, teachers are always asked to share in the sacrifice, but are never allowed to share in the prosperity. In fact, the 1993 QEO law prevented total compensation from keeping pace with private-sector workers, including during times of great economic growth. When you control for factors such as education, experience, actual hours worked, benefits, etc., teachers right now make 4.8% less total compensation than their private-sector counterparts. We have been sacrificing all along.

[Sparky speaks]

Don’t let Wisconsin divide us.

Conservatives and liberals actually agree about the most important things.

 

Conservatives and liberals actually agree about the most important things.

 

In fact, most Americans – conservatives and liberals – are fed up with both of the mainstream republican and democratic parties, because it has become obvious that both parties serve Wall Street and the military-industrial complex at the expense of most Americans.

 

In reality, all Americans – conservatives and liberals:

 

* Want to break up the unholy alliance between big government and big banks

 

* Want to break up the giant banks

 

* Agree that the Wall Street criminals who committed fraud should be thrown in jail

 

* Agree that the Federal Reserve should be audited

 

* Are against corporate socialism

 

* Are against rampant inequality

 

* Want to stand up to the ruling class

 

* And are against unnecessary imperial wars

 

 

The powers-that-be try to divide us and demonize the “other side” so that we won’t realize how much we all agree on.

 

Read more:

My link

 

Immune? Do you really think teachers haven't already sacrificed a great deal in the wake of the Great Recession? Would you like me to explain how I recently accepted a pay freeze and, before that, a devastating step freeze? Would you like me explain the slow erosion in medical benefits over the last few years? Should I list the names of dozens of colleagues who were let go in the last few years? Should I explain how I routinely work 70 hours a week because of the increased workload as a result of those layoffs?

 

And our losses will never be restored, even after the economy recovers. Unlike the private sector, teachers are always asked to share in the sacrifice, but are never allowed to share in the prosperity. In fact, the 1993 QEO law prevented total compensation from keeping pace with private-sector workers, including during times of great economic growth. When you control for factors such as education, experience, actual hours worked, benefits, etc., teachers right now make 4.8% less total compensation than their private-sector counterparts. We have been sacrificing all along.

 

AMEN...

[uncool2pillow]

Beltmann, I was wrong to say that public employees haven't shared in the sacrifice. It's just that in my own personal experience, I've seen many more friends and family from the private sector hurt harder than those in the public sector.

[ih8music]

Again, this is not about the unions being unwilling to consider a pay or pension cut -- it's about Walker trying to eliminate their right to collective bargaining. If he drops that part of it, this whole thing goes away.

[Beltmann]

Again, this is not about the unions being unwilling to consider a pay or pension cut -- it's about Walker trying to eliminate their right to collective bargaining. If he drops that part of it, this whole thing goes away.

Exactly. Workers have already agreed to all economic concessions. This bill is about breaking the union as much as it is about balancing the budget.

[Smokestack Joe]

nice post Sparky Lyle. We are all in this together regardless of one's political side.

 

Also, second Amen to my Madison guy Beltmann.

 

My boss recently "Walkered" me, severe pay cut with no cutback in work. I think he has been on two vacations since then.

[Winston Legthigh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQ

[Beltmann]

Also, second Amen to my Madison guy Beltmann.

I'm actually about 90 minutes east of Madison, but I'll take it!

[Smokestack Joe]

ok, my milwaukee guy!

[Sparky speaks]

Both parties out to destroy labor unions and the working class...

 

Workers Rights: How to Win in Wisconsin and Beyond

by Shamus Cooke

 

The eruption of protests in Madison, Wisconsin against a rabidly anti-union Governor and legislature has become "ground zero" in a fight that, on the surface, appears to be labor unions vs. Republicans.

 

Digging deeper will reveal a conflict brewing for decades in American society that pits working people in general against an increasingly bold corporate sector. The side that wins the battle in Wisconsin will be empowered and the loser demoralized, affecting the morale of the fighters in the next state that erupts into open conflict.

 

One way workers in Wisconsin can strengthen their hand is by separating their so-called friends from their real friends. Everybody from President Obama to hordes of Democratic politicians have come out in support of the Wisconsin workers, which is fine. Unacceptable, however, is the motives of many of these politicians, which have hidden dangers for workers across the U.S. who are attempting to mount a defense of their livelihoods.

 

For example, the Democrats’ sudden pro-labor stance was based on the very specific attack by the Republican Governor in Wisconsin -- the elimination of collective bargaining rights for the various state and other public sector unions; the very foundation of the union's existence.

 

At the same time, however, Democrats all over the country are cooperating with Republicans in launching a massive attack on the wages and benefits of public employees, scapegoating them for the deficits caused by Wall Street’s recession and the corporate sector in general, the real "base" of the Democrats.

 

White House spokesman Jay Carney made this point very clear:

 

"[the President] is very understanding of the need for state governments, governors, state legislatures to reduce spending to make tough choices [cuts to public workers] to be fiscally responsible, but he also feels very strongly that we need not make this an assault on the collective bargaining rights of workers in any given state."

 

Workers in Wisconsin and elsewhere strongly disagree.

 

Sadly, the right-wing policies of the Republican Governor in Wisconsin are only slightly more anti-worker than the Democratic Governors in California, New York, Washington, Oregon, and elsewhere, who are dumping state deficits onto the backs of state workers and those who benefit from their services.

Sadder still is that both Democrats and labor leaders in Wisconsin have stated that they are willing to make all kinds of concessions; they just want the right to collectively bargain so that wages and benefits can be "compromised" away at the bargaining table, rather than being summarily slashed by the governor.

 

A win in Wisconsin will not simply be a rejection of the Governor's bill and the continuation of bargaining rights for the union; rather, workers will feel that they have won if their health care, pension, and wages are not reduced, which is the real reason that many of them are fighting.

 

This is the main point that many Democratic "friends of labor" purposely miss. The Democrats want labor unions to exist as an institution because they are good machines for getting workers to vote Democrat, while also helping Democratic politicians make wage and benefit reductions "acceptable" to workers through collective bargaining.

 

The workers in Wisconsin are fighting for their collective bargaining rights because they aim to use the union to increase or maintain their standard of living, since any union that fails to do this is a union in name only.

 

To keep their standard of living state workers will need to demand that taxes on the wealthy and corporations are increased, since Democratic and Republican Governors continually explain that "there is no money" to fund wages and benefits.

 

There is in fact money, lots of it. Inequality in the U.S. has risen for decades as the richest 1 percent has acquired unheard of wealth through low taxation and corporate tax breaks. In Wisconsin, for instance, Gov. Walker has managed to pass, with bi-partisan support, a number of tax breaks geared towards benefiting big business. According to the Associated Press, these give aways add $117 million to the state's budget problems - close to the amount Walker is trying to squeeze out of the public workers.

 

State workers also need to demand that governments at the municipal, state and federal level create millions of jobs in public works, by again, taxing the rich, the corporations, and Wall Street. These demands have the potential to mobilize millions in the streets, both union and non-union workers, employed and unemployed. It is the only way to unite and mobilize working people while separating their “Democratic Party friends” from their real friends.

 

Link:

My link

 

[Sparky speaks]

Collective Bargaining as a Human Right

Michael Zimmer

 

A slight diversion from the normal content of this blog, I’d like to take just a moment to highlight the protests here in Wisconsin against Gov. Scott Walker’s desire to eliminate most collective bargaining rights of most public employees. (Note: I am a state employee, but UW System faculty are not unionized).

 

The Governor’s so-called “Budget Repair Bill” will require state employees to make larger contributions to their pensions and health care coverage, and will also remove collective bargaining rights except for wages, which would be limited to be not greater than the Consumer Price Index. (Police and fire fighters would be exempt from this provision.)

 

While most public employees appear ready to make financial concessions to help ease the State’s budget crisis, the push to eliminate collective bargaining rights has not, to say the least, been well-received.

 

Wisconsin, of course, has a proud history of progressiveness and organized labor: Wisconsin was the first state to give its public workers the right to bargain collectively; the American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees, the largest public employee and health care workers union in the United States, was founded here; and the state is often credited as the birthplace of progessivism. For such reasons, this dispute between a conservative state government and its public employees has been described as a defining moment in the labor movement nationwide.

 

We are 5 days into the organized protests, and it remains unclear if/when/how this will be resolved.

 

But I wanted to use this space to give credence to the argument that collective bargaining is a fundamental human right, recognized internationally in various conventions, constitutions, and courts.

 

For example, Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights identifies the ability to organise trade unions as a fundamental human right, while item 2(a) of the International Labour Organization’s Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work defines the “freedom of association and the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining” as an essential right of all workers.

 

Consider the Bill of Rights of the South African Constitution, which guarantees that “Every trade union, employers’ organisation and employer has the right to engage in collective bargaining.”

 

In 2007, the Supreme Court of the State of Missouri held that Missouri’s state constitution also protected the right to collective bargaining for public employees.

 

And most strongly, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in a case disputing whether a constitutional guarantee of freedom of association includes procedural right to collective bargaining, finding that collective bargaining is indeed a human right:

The right to bargain collectively with an employer enhances the human dignity, liberty and autonomy of workers by giving them the opportunity to influence the establishment of workplace rules and thereby gain some control over a major aspect of their lives, namely their work… Collective bargaining is not simply an instrument for pursuing external ends…rather [it] is intrinsically valuable as an experience in self-government… Collective bargaining permits workers to achieve a form of workplace democracy and to ensure the rule of law in the workplace. Workers gain a voice to influence the establishment of rules that control a major aspect of their lives.

I do hope, in the coming days, the State of Wisconsin will also support dignity, liberty, and autonomy through the continuation of collective bargaining rights among public employees.

 

My link