Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The only movement I'm interested in comes about 7 every morning.Produces the same results as the movements represented in Chicago. Peace Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The only movement I'm interested in comes about 7 every morning.Produces the same results as the movements represented in Chicago. Peace The Black Bloc(k). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The only movement I'm interested in comes about 7 every morning.Produces the same results as the movements represented in Chicago. PeaceKinda cynical but both feel good when they were done. Even the demonstrators felt really good about how things went in Chicago. They felt like they had been heard and felt. In a sense the movement now can take credit the same way the movement in my day also took credit for ending the Vietnam War. In this case the war IS ending; that's exactly what was announced at the end of the meeting. Of course it isn't ending immediately and under the same conditions that the protesters want, but clearly. not on the time schedule they (we) want. This is not unlike the numerous anti-war protests that went on up until the last minute during Vietnam. Ultimately the inertia and cost of war ends it, rather than any protest from small incensed groups. But it makes all us peaceniks feel better to think we did it. I wish we could, but ultimately the cost in lives and resources end all wars, But it does make everyone feel better to think they got heard and made a difference. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 II'll take your word for that because it ain't Chicago. We don't have those fancy light poles downtown, Nor has it been 41 degrees this week unless that is Celsius in which case I don't think it has been as high as 41 C either. LouieB Yeah, that street doesn't exist here, but it does in Portland, and there just happens to be a Chase bank located there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, that street doesn't exist here, but it does in Portland, and there just happens to be a Chase bank located there.Who knew Portlandia was a police state? Where were all the hippies and hipsters when THAT was going on? LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theashtraysays Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is not unlike the numerous anti-war protests that went on up until the last minute during Vietnam. Ultimately the inertia and cost of war ends it, rather than any protest from small incensed groups. But it makes all us peaceniks feel better to think we did it. I wish we could, but ultimately the cost in lives and resources end all wars, But it does make everyone feel better to think they got heard and made a difference.LouieBwell said, and I see the reality of that point. but don't you think that the protests and that overall voice contribute to that "cost" as well? I still think that the unrest, the dissatisfaction, the "voice" from a passionate & sincere group of people (whatever you want to call such an organized and sustained "movement") is recognized as a part of the cost and help push, or at least expedite, the outcome. Is it strictly a "rather than" as you said, or is there an "in addition to" working there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Who knew Portlandia was a police state? Where were all the hippies and hipsters when THAT was going on? LouieB It's probably from the March 29, 2010 riots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Even the demonstrators felt really good about how things went in Chicago. They felt like they had been heard and felt.LouieB Even some said thanks (and sorry). http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/natosummit/chi-nato-commute-protests-052112,0,3033341.story A man from New York who gave his name only as Jose said felt the loosely united coalition of diverse political interests had made its voice heard in Chicago."We apologize to the people of Chicago for any inconvenience, but sometimes, to change people, you need to sacrifice," he said."Thank you very much," he added. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 well said, and I see the reality of that point. but don't you think that the protests and that overall voice contribute to that "cost" as well? I still think that the unrest, the dissatisfaction, the "voice" from a passionate & sincere group of people (whatever you want to call such an organized and sustained "movement") is recognized as a part of the cost and help push, or at least expedite, the outcome. Is it strictly a "rather than" as you said, or is there an "in addition to" working there?Naturally, otherwise I would not show up for these events myself after all these years. One would hope it helps, so i still go. Not all the time anymore, but when I can.It's probably from the March 29, 2010 riots.Makes sense. It would be 43 in Portland in March. Gotta love Sparky's ignorance of Chicago weather. I mean it was cold yesterday, but hasn't been that cold lately.Even some said thanks (and sorry). http://www.chicagotr...0,3033341.story Actually the folks interviewed on the TV were extremely and movingly gracious. Andy Traub (or whatever his name is) had to be characteristically bellicose. because that is his role, but really when all was said and done, both sides engaged in the requisit amount of power struggle and no more. It was kind of a win win win for everyone, even our mayor, whom i dislike more and more as time goes on. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The White Sox are giving every police officer two tickets for their service during the NATO summit. I think it would have been cool if they gave some to some of the demonstration organizers, too (Even to Andy Thayer - though I think Andy would choose to sit at the other end of the park). http://www.chicagotr...0,2833221.story ''Mayor Emanuel asked the White Sox organization to join the city of Chicago in honoring the men and women of the Chicago Police Department who represent the most dedicated and finest of our great city, and we are proud to recognize their service,'' Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said in a statement. ''The White Sox thank these true Chicago heroes who served our city during the NATO Summit." Now if White Sox could start beating the Twins, that would be great, too..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The White Sox are giving every police officer two tickets for their service during the NATO summit. I think it would have been cool if they gave some to some of the demonstration organizers, too (Even to Andy Thayer - though I think Andy would choose to sit at the other end of the park). http://www.chicagotr...0,2833221.story Now if White Sox could start beating the Twins, that would be great, too.....Really. They can beat the Cubs but not the Twins? What's up with that. Thanks..Thayer, not Traub. Saw him in the crowd on Sunday with a bullhorn. Now what is HE going to do? Back to that boring day job I guess. edit-Oh nothing like a good ball game between the leader of the protest and the police that hauled off and jailed and tortured him for a month or so. Oh wait that didn't happen. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thayer definitely has an annoying demeanor - which good I guess for his line of work. I have enjoyed his interviews the months leading up to the summit. It's a nice gesture by Reinsdorf (the cynic in me sees some type of tax break for the organization in the future, though, but better them than the Cubs ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I thought Thayer did well too. At this point the Cubs are going to have a hard time getting the tax breaks THEY want. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah - the Cubs are going to have uphill battle. Parents sure can be so annoying...... Steinberg has a nice piece regarding the NATO weekend. http://www.suntimes....y-expected.html Not to take too much away: The cops had a plan and stuck to it. Which is more than you can say about the protesters, who seemed to be participating in some kind of private theater, as opposed to trying to project a message. They came off as having no idea what the First Amendment actually guarantees. It reads, in its entirety: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” That does not give you the right to dance in the street all day — how could society function? We would be hostage to whatever group wanted to shut down Michigan Avenue today. Does that make us “a police state”? I guess if you’re 22 and never visited anywhere else. But given the existence of actual repression, it was sad — to the degree anyone noticed — to see how easily the basic, let’s-keep-it-peaceful law enforcement was tarred as “brutality.” It degrades the language, or would, if anybody paid attention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well Sparky may not agree, but then he agrees with very little that has any basis in reality and hasn't been back since throwing the bomb which is this thread. I have to mildly disagree with this guy, although ONLY mildly. Street theater is freedom of speech and nothing most of hte demonstrators did was much more than "fight for their right to party" (whether it be political or otherwise). So while it inconvienced a bunch of folks, burned up a bunch of governmental resources (which could have been better used somewhere else), evidenced a power struggle between the demonstrators and the police (city governemnt really because the police themselves handled themselves pretty well under the circumstances and following their superiors orders), and had less then zero consequence in the long run on what NATO actually does; a pretty good time had by all (and something most of them can take to the experience bank in these sort of dreadful times) and provided lots of work for journalists of all stripes and media. Actually it was a reasonable job creator in these days of high unemployment. My ongoing complaint about all of it was the low level or complete lack of music and other entertaining events. Large scale rallies should be more entertaining than what I saw on Sunday. With a whole town of brilliant musicians they really fell down on the job. Maybe that Andy dude ain't a music guy, I dunno. LouieB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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