General Political Thread

[Hixter]

So only the lives of ambassadors count?

 

http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/40811/13-benghazis-happened-under-president-bush-and-fox-news-said-nothing

Despite the writer's zealous attempt to claim that 13 Benghazis took place during the Bush administration, how many Americans were killed in the embassies/consulates? The answer is one.

[twoshedsjackson]

Despite the writer's zealous attempt to claim that 13 Benghazis took place during the Bush administration, how many Americans were killed in the embassies/consulates? The answer is one.

Did you actually read any of that? Americans were killed - and your complete lack of concern for the dozens of local employees and police/security forces who also died says a lot about you and your mindset.

[KevinG]

I feel as a larger point is being missed here.  I think everyone here can agree that Benghazi was a tragedy.  I dare say any loss of life of Americans overseas is a tragedy.  So the question that needs to be asked was there a failure in protecting the embassy in Benghazi.  Not, was there a massive cover up to fool the American people into voting for Obama in 2012.  It seems to me that the GOP cares more about the the cover up, rather than what we need to do to better protect our embassies in the future.  

 

And further to the point, it is apparent that attacks on Embassies happen and have happened in the past.  What I think it has most people on the left so fed up with this is that the right seems to have forgotten this unfortunate history and are trying to use the deaths of four Americans for political gain.   

[Hixter]

Did you actually read any of that? Americans were killed

Yes I did -- very closely -- and the answer is still one.

[twoshedsjackson]

Yes I did -- very closely -- and the answer is still one.

And the others who died? People working for the US in our embassies/consulates? What, collateral damage?

 

This is off topic, but I have to ask because I want to know who I'm arguing with and if it's worth it:

 

What are your views on, say, climate change? Gay marriage? Women's reproductive rights?Evolution?

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I really consider myself a member of the human race first and an American second. I do find it (and have always found it) bizarre the way so many of my countrymen tally tragedies only in terms of American deaths...as if the deaths of others are somehow of less value. Even on the progressive left, many fall victim to this. For example, during the Iraq war, there was a constant drumbeat about the mounting number of American casualties - who were, after all, military personnel, and knew what they signed up for - but almost no mention of the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them women and children, who lost their lives. When innocents die by violence, we all lose.

[twoshedsjackson]

I really consider myself a member of the human race first and an American second. I do find it (and have always found it) bizarre the way so many of my countrymen tally tragedies only in terms of American deaths...as if the deaths of others are somehow of less value. Even on the progressive left, many fall victim to this. For example, during the Iraq war, there was a constant drumbeat about the mounting number of American casualties - who were, after all, military personnel, and knew what they signed up for - but almost no mention of the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them women and children, who lost their lives. When innocents die by violence, we all lose.

You, sir, just nailed it.

[Hixter]

This is off topic, but I have to ask because I want to know who I'm arguing with and if it's worth it:

I'm not arguing. I'm pointing out some facts -- in this case that there were not "13 Benghazis" during the Bush administration where multiple Americans were killed -- and interspersing them with my personal opinions. I don't consider politics a team sport; it's not an "us vs. them" issue in my eyes. I am as annoyed by the Republican party as I am by the Democrats.

 

What are your views on, say, climate change? Gay marriage? Women's reproductive rights?Evolution?

I believed I've covered all those in the past when other people tried to cram me into a tidy little box.

 

For example, during the Iraq war, there was a constant drumbeat about the mounting number of American casualties - who were, after all, military personnel, and knew what they signed up for - but almost no mention of the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them women and children, who lost their lives.

Almost no mention? You would have had to have been in a coma during the Bush administration to say such a thing. But I have noticed that the drumbeat about American military deaths has quieted to the occasional whisper in the press now that President Obama is in office. You don't read about many "grim milestones" these days, despite the fact that the majority of deaths in Afghanistan took place under his watch.

[twoshedsjackson]

I believed I've covered all those in the past when other people tried to cram me into a tidy little box.

 

I guess I missed that. Could you enlighten me? A simple for or against will do.

 

Also, perhaps the reason people aren't blaming Obama much for military deaths is because he didn't start two wars under false pretenses and send soldiers over there to begin with? I mean, that's just a guess. Maybe it's just all those damned liberals being mean...

[Hixter]

I guess I missed that. Could you enlighten me? A simple for or against will do.

Maybe it's just all those damned liberals being mean...

A snarky response deserves a snarky response of its own, so instead of answering your question I'll suggest that you search the archives for your answer.

[Atticus]

that wasn't very snarky.

[KevinG]

 But I have noticed that the drumbeat about American military deaths has quieted to the occasional whisper in the press now that President Obama is in office. You don't read about many "grim milestones" these days, despite the fact that the majority of deaths in Afghanistan took place under his watch.

 

I know that Alan Colmes announces the number of military wounded or killed in action on his radio show weekly.  

 

I think the milestones are important and should be read on the news nightly and featured prominently on every major news site.  It is a shame that it is not.  But to bring it to another thread that is out there it contracts the notion that War = Fun.

 

Also I see you implying something about the "liberal" media again.  Which as you know I think is pure bull.  But the reason we don't get the announcements of the grave milestones as we had during the Bush era is because of war fatigue and it it simply does not sell ad space.  News is intended to make a profit, that is why you get stories that are pushed through quickly and not done with the proper background checks (like the 60 minutes story).  That is why you have stories about the new prince in England and not about the number of dead in Iraq, Africa, Chicago, Nogales, etc. it simply does not sell.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

 

Almost no mention? You would have had to have been in a coma during the Bush administration to say such a thing. But I have noticed that the drumbeat about American military deaths has quieted to the occasional whisper in the press now that President Obama is in office. You don't read about many "grim milestones" these days, despite the fact that the majority of deaths in Afghanistan took place under his watch.

Oh, well, then I guess I was in a coma all those years. Frankly, it wasn't very enjoyable being an American from about 2000-2008. Good time to be in a coma.

 

But in all seriousness, did you really see much coverage about Iraqi civilian casualties in the so-called "mainstream media?" I never did. In fact, I found most of my info by looking for things via Google, like the Iraqbodycount.org website. I still remember that the total American death toll was between 4,000-5,000, because it got so much coverage. I had to go back to the Iraqbodycount.org site just to refresh my memory and be reminded that only about 120,000 Iraq civilians died in Bush's misadventure.

[Hixter]

But in all seriousness, did you really see much coverage about Iraqi civilian casualties in the so-called "mainstream media?" 

Yes, nearly every day.

 

[Sir Stewart]

I think everyone here can agree that Benghazi was a tragedy. 

 

Don't put words in my mouth.

[Sir Stewart]

Yes, nearly every day.

 

 

Those results span ten years. 

[Hixter]

Those results span ten years. 

All the more indication that Iraqi civilian casualties were widely reported from the start of the war until the present.

[twoshedsjackson]

A snarky response deserves a snarky response of its own, so instead of answering your question I'll suggest that you search the archives for your answer.

It's not worth the effort, dude. I'm pretty sure I can guess, and if I were you I'd be embarrassed to admit it too.

It's funny - you paint yourself as some independent thinker who's annoyed with the GOP and doesn't watch Fox, but literally everything you say is Fox-grade derp, in lock-step with the GOP.

[Hixter]

It's not worth the effort, dude. I'm pretty sure I can guess, and if I were you I'd be embarrassed to admit it too.

Read back and you'll find out how wrong you are.

[Sir Stewart]

All the more indication that Iraqi civilian casualties were widely reported from the start of the war until the present.

 

Ah. I didn't bother clicking back on the quotes to see the conversation. Carry on.

[Atticus]

Ah. I didn't bother clicking back on the quotes to see the conversation. Carry on.

 

I haven't been able to play song pop because the lady in the office next door has her kids with her.  I'm afraid they'd hear it and want to come play too, and they'd probably like totally fuck up my response times.

[Sir Stewart]

Headphne mothrfucka!

[Atticus]

I will brng sme to the offce on the Mondy.  

oh, and I feel pretty good about politics, generally.

[Guest Don Draper]

Benghazi is the biggest non-story the right have latched onto since the birther nonsense.

Yep.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Yes, nearly every day.

 

 

So I saw this and thought, in all good faith, Wow, 48,000, that's a lot of stories. I guess I was wrong.

 

But, being one for due diligence, I started looking at what those stories are. Here is one of them:

 

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/10/how-syria-differs-from-libya/?iref=allsearch

 

Check the first line:

 

"Amid growing outrage over civilian casualties in Syria, there are ever more urgent calls to aid - or at least protect - the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad."

 

Right. That is a 2012 story about Syria.

 

You get an A for effort, but not an A for anything else on that little CNN search of yours. That is what the kiddies call an epic fail.