General Political Thread

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 or the non-emergency line over the last few years, yet you listed only the 6 or 7 which mention African-Americans. Perhaps the "pattern" is of your own making?

 

And as soon as they used their weapons in an unlawful manner they became criminals.

Here is my source:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

 

Of course I cherry-picked the half dozen which are African-American males to make my point. But look at the dates: over a period of less than a year. And one of the "suspects" is a child described as "between 7 and 9 years old." In what universe is a 28-year-old man afraid to just simply talk to a 9-year-old child? He calls the cops on the child.

 

Seriously, if a psychological evaluation is not in order, I can only think of one other rational explanation. And it ain't pretty.

[Hixter]

Is this what neighborhood watch people are supposed to do? Call the cops when there is a "Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old? You can't walk up to the kid and ask him if he's lost? There is something (or maybe several things) seriously wrong with this dude.

I just looked up the full police transcript. It also says that Zimmerman reported that the boy was walking alone and unsupervised on a busy street and he was concerned for the boy's well-being.

 

The police reports from all of Zimmerman's 911 and non-emergency calls can be viewed here.

 

I can't believe you guys are discussing this.  Clearly Hixter thinks it was perfectly fine for Zimmerman to kill Martin.

Yep, although it can be sad, justified and legal all at the same time.

[uncool2pillow]

I can't believe you guys are discussing this.  Clearly Hixter thinks it was perfectly fine for Zimmerman to kill Martin.  What's not to understand about his position??

 

LouieB

 

I like hearing his POV.

 

Isn't Zimmerman's neighborhood a gated community? 46 calls to police? Maybe not a racist, but paranoid? I bet the police started rolling their eyes when they heard from the guy.

[Winston Legthigh]

I like hearing his POV. Isn't Zimmerman's neighborhood a gated community? 46 calls to police? Maybe not a racist, but paranoid? I bet the police started rolling their eyes when they heard from the guy.

 

Could be that being the neighborhood watch guy, he was the point person to relay calls to the police?

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Isn't Zimmerman's neighborhood a gated community? 46 calls to police? Maybe not a racist, but paranoid? I bet the police started rolling their eyes when they heard from the guy.

Yep. I don't buy the "concern for the child" line either. He may have said that, but I don't buy it. Why not speak with the child? I don't understand the need to call the police. If he's not a racist (and he has black friends and supporters to shore him up), he sure has a profound lack of understanding of what it's like to be black and live in that community. Blacks in a small, mostly-white Southern town like Sanford typically have a serious distrust and/or fear of law enforcement. Hell, I'm white and I have that. If you're really concerned about a child, you don't have cops roll up to him, possibly scaring the shit out of him. You stroll up and say, "Hey, buddy, you okay? Your friends/parents, etc. not around?" Something.

[Hixter]

In what universe is a 28-year-old man afraid to just simply talk to a 9-year-old child?

In our universe. Many men -- myself included -- avoid getting close to young children if they are strangers because of the very real fear that they could be seen as potential child molesters/kidnappers.

 

I was a single parent who raised 2 children from the ages of 1 and 2 through adulthood and I can tell you that I experienced this firsthand several times. Once I was doing some research at a library in Orlando and my kids were quietly reading books 8 feet away from me. A woman approached them and said, "Why aren't you in school? Who is that man? Are you supposed to be with him? Where's your mother?"

 

I explained to her that my kids had the day off from school and that I was their legal guardian, but she didn't believe me until my 6-year-old daughter explained to her that they had "always lived with Daddy."

 

Every year I'd fill out those "who is allowed to pick up your child from school?" forms and every year I'd note that my ex-wife was not allowed to pick them up. One day my former mother-in-law stopped by to pick the kids up early as a surprise and they handed the kids over to her without question, despite the fact that she wasn't on the list. Why? Because they thought she was their mother. (She's actually 2 years younger than I am.)

 

Every time I picked up my kids I had to show ID, while my mother was never challenged. It's not fair but it's there nonetheless. 

[LouieB]

He's not a racist, he's just a macho gun toting dude completely out of his depth.

 

LouieB

[Mr. Heartbreak]

In our universe. Many men -- myself included -- avoid getting close to young children if they are strangers because of the very real fear that they could be seen as potential child molesters/kidnappers.

 

I was a single parent who raised 2 children from the ages of 1 and 2 through adulthood and I can tell you that I experienced this firsthand several times. Once I was doing some research at a library in Orlando and my kids were quietly reading books 8 feet away from me. A woman approached them and said, "Why aren't you in school? Who is that man? Are you supposed to be with him? Where's your mother?"

 

I explained to her that my kids had the day off from school and that I was their legal guardian, but she didn't believe me until my 6-year-old daughter explained to her that they had "always lived with Daddy."

 

Every year I'd fill out those "who is allowed to pick up your child from school?" forms and every year I'd note that my ex-wife was not allowed to pick them up. One day my former mother-in-law stopped by to pick the kids up early as a surprise and they handed the kids over to her without question, despite the fact that she wasn't on the list. Why? Because they thought she was their mother. (She's actually 2 years younger than I am.)

 

Every time I picked up my kids I had to show ID, while my mother was never challenged. It's not fair but it's there nonetheless. 

Damn, the paranoia in our country right now is just sick. That shit is ridiculous.

[Hixter]

 Isn't Zimmerman's neighborhood a gated community? 46 calls to police? Maybe not a racist, but paranoid? I bet the police started rolling their eyes when they heard from the guy.

Those calls were made over 7.5 years, so they aren't really excessive. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Here's some more good news about good old George:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/george-zimmerman-gun-back_n_3598228.html

[uncool2pillow]

Those calls were made over 7.5 years, so they aren't really excessive. 

Fair enough, I interpreted "a few" as may 2-4 years.  But if he's been patrolling his neighborhood for that long, he knew exactly where he was when he called police that night.  Again, I believe that was a lie.  He led to make it appear he wasn't disobeying a police dispatcher's request and bolster his story of self-defense.

[uncool2pillow]

Here's some more good news about good old George:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/george-zimmerman-gun-back_n_3598228.html

 

I remember hanging out with my brother and a bunch of his fellow Texas lawyer types.  One of them, a defense attorney who has since represented at least one well known defendant, quipped, "Hell yeah I keep 'em out of jail and help 'em get their guns back!"

 

In all seriousness, though, I think it's clear that this guy does need his gun now more than ever.  

[Mr. Heartbreak]

In all seriousness, though, I think it's clear that this guy does need his gun now more than ever.  

 

Well, he won't be "standing his ground" if someone puts one in the back of his head....which is more likely now than before. And this time, it would likely be an actual thug, not a teenager with Skittles and iced tea.

 

I already feel sorry for both families, but I feel no pity for him, whether he survives long or not. He should have stayed in his car like he did every other time he called the cops.

[Hixter]

Damn, the paranoia in our country right now is just sick. That shit is ridiculous.

It is. When I see an obviously lost child in a store I don't approach him/her and instead just keep an eye on them from a distance until the frantic parents arrive. If a store employee or customer walks by I ask them to alert store security. It's tough to just stand by and watch the child panic, but it's in my best interest to avoid approaching him/her.

 

But if he's been patrolling his neighborhood for that long, he knew exactly where he was when he called police that night.

He was looking for a street number and was behind the dwellings where the numbers weren't visible. I don't think a neighborhood watch volunteer is expected to memorize every house number.

 

In all seriousness, though, I think it's clear that this guy does need his gun now more than ever.  

Yep. He gets death threats every day. He needs to move far away from Florida.

[uncool2pillow]

The streets in that neighborhood seem so short that I'm not sure house numbers would have been needed to pinpoint his location, but whatever.

[ih8music]

Yep, although it can be sad, justified and legal all at the same time.

 

Sad and legal, I agree.  No fucking way was it justified.

[ih8music]

Yep. He gets death threats every day. He needs to move far away from Florida.

 

Ah, the rich irony of him fearing the wrath of vigilante justice.

[Hixter]

Sad and legal, I agree.  No fucking way was it justified.

Neither Martin nor Zimmerman had committed a crime right up until the moment that Zimmerman was attacked by Martin. As soon as Martin began banging Zimmerman's head on the ground, reaching for his gun and telling Zimmerman that he was "gonna die tonight", Zimmerman was completely justified in using deadly force to prevent his own death. George Zimmerman could easily have wound up dead instead of Trayvon Martin.

 

Ah, the rich irony of him fearing the wrath of vigilante justice.

There is no proof that he was acting as anything more than a concerned neighbor.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

... Zimmerman was attacked by Martin. As soon as Martin began banging Zimmerman's head on the ground, reaching for his gun and telling Zimmerman that he was "gonna die tonight", Zimmerman was completely justified in using deadly force to prevent his own death. 

Believe it or not, I really have not followed the particulars of the case that closely. Is there any independent confirmation of any of these details, or are they all coming from Zim's version of what happened? I am seriously asking, not trying to start a flame war.

[Winston Legthigh]

Believe it or not, I really have not followed the particulars of the case that closely. Is there any independent confirmation of any of these details, or are they all coming from Zim's version of what happened? I am seriously asking, not trying to start a flame war.

Dead men tell no tales.

[Hixter]

Believe it or not, I really have not followed the particulars of the case that closely. Is there any independent confirmation of any of these details, or are they all coming from Zim's version of what happened

Zimmerman is the only living witness to the entire event, so you can't discount his recollection completely or the case would be nothing but a big question mark.

 

The things that are clear:

 

1) Zimmerman had an obviously broken nose. That's consistent with what he said about Martin punching him in the nose.

 

2) He had lacerations on the back of his head. That's consistent with what he said about Martin slamming his head on the sidewalk.

 

3) Zimmerman's back was wet and covered with grass and a doctor testified that the pistol was in contact with Martin's clothing and that the clothing was 4 or 5 inches away from his body. That's consistent with Zimmerman's claim that Martin was straddling him from the top.

 

Remember that Zimmerman was handcuffed, driven to the police station in the back of a cop car and then underwent a lengthy interrogation by well-trained detectives. Those guys are very good at reading body language, finding holes in suspects' stories and getting people to crack. One of the detectives was still skeptical of Zimmerman's account of the night's events until he bluffed that there might be video of the event and Zimmerman showed relief and said "Thank God." That convinced him that Zimmerman was telling the truth and, at the end of the day, they decided that his actions were justified and legal.

[uncool2pillow]

Except that the more they listened the less the police believed his story.  This is a good, unbiased article.  Shows that the police thought that there were holes in Zimmerman's story but also seems to support the idea that charges shouldn't be brought.  Most of the people quoted along that angle are defense attorneys, so of course that's what they'd say.  

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/2860569/zimmerman-told-police-trayvon.html

[Mr. Heartbreak]

One of the detectives was still skeptical of Zimmerman's account of the night's events until he bluffed that there might be video of the event and Zimmerman showed relief and said "Thank God." That convinced him that Zimmerman was telling the truth and, at the end of the day, they decided that his actions were justified and legal.

He also reportedly told Sean Hannity in an interview that Trayvon Martin's death was "God's plan." Not too thrilled with his references to God.

As a Florida resident, I would personally like to see him off the street again...sooner rather than later.

[Atticus]

Texas lawyer types.   

 

watch it.

[uncool2pillow]

watch it.

 

They were, each and every one of them, great people.  You could tell why most of them were great litigators.  Charming, smart without being condescending.  I had a blast for an entire weekend with a group of strangers other than my brother.