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#41 calvino

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 10:06 AM

This baseball cheating scandal is weird.  I get the punishment but it's interesting that it's GMs and managers who are the focus and not any players.  And it's too bad - I like Alex Cora but he had to go.  

 

I guess it has a lot to do with the players union. Plus one can say a player was only doing what he was told to do by management. 

 

I haven't been following it too closely until yesterday -- didn't realize they were using a garbage can to convey the pitch.

 

Below is a blog post, showing the how they did it, of course it shows the Astro playing the White Sox, Kinda crazy that the pitcher didn't go to the ump. It sure looks like he realized what was going on. 

 

Of course, sign stealing has been around forever -- I do think using video is going over the line, though.

 

https://www.thebigle...of-01dsgr6p6x1j



#42 chisoxjtrain

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:09 PM

This baseball cheating scandal is weird. I get the punishment but it's interesting that it's GMs and managers who are the focus and not any players. And it's too bad - I like Alex Cora but he had to go.


Player’s Union is way too strong. Plus, I can’t imagine Manfred wanting to add fuel to the fire that will be a contentious negotiation. Many people, me included, think there’s going to be a strike/lockout in 2021.


I guess it has a lot to do with the players union. Plus one can say a player was only doing what he was told to do by management.


I haven't been following it too closely until yesterday -- didn't realize they were using a garbage can to convey the pitch.


Below is a blog post, showing the how they did it, of course it shows the Astro playing the White Sox, Kinda crazy that the pitcher didn't go to the ump. It sure looks like he realized what was going on.


Of course, sign stealing has been around forever -- I do think using video is going over the line, though.


https://www.thebigle...of-01dsgr6p6x1j


How pathetic do you have to be to cheat against the 2017 White Sox? I say this as a die hard White Sox fan.


I guess it has a lot to do with the players union. Plus one can say a player was only doing what he was told to do by management.


I haven't been following it too closely until yesterday -- didn't realize they were using a garbage can to convey the pitch.


Below is a blog post, showing the how they did it, of course it shows the Astro playing the White Sox, Kinda crazy that the pitcher didn't go to the ump. It sure looks like he realized what was going on.


Of course, sign stealing has been around forever -- I do think using video is going over the line, though.


https://www.thebigle...of-01dsgr6p6x1j


How pathetic do you have to be to cheat against the 2017 White Sox? I say this as a die hard White Sox fan.

#43 The Inside of Outside

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:40 PM

I hope MLB comes down even harder on the Red Sox. Ex-manager Cora should get at least a 2 year suspension (given his role in two teams' cheating), Dombrowski a year, and the 5 million dollar fine. I could see more lost draft picks than the Astros, given the Red Sox got caught cheating in 2017 (which led to MLB's warning all teams about stealing signs).

 

And I say that as a Red Sox fan.



#44 KevinG

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:52 AM

This baseball cheating scandal is weird.  I get the punishment but it's interesting that it's GMs and managers who are the focus and not any players.  And it's too bad - I like Alex Cora but he had to go.  

 

My dad has always said it is easier to fire the manager then it is to fire the whole team.  Which I think is the case here.  If you were to punish the players, it would have to be in the way of fines or suspensions, but trying to figure out who knew what and at what time I think would be extremely difficult.  

 

A world series championship likely brings in 100s of millions of dollars (billions maybe) to a club.  Not only during that season, but merchandise, increase ticket sales in the future, new TV contracts, etc.  So when we start talking money that large you will see people trying to get every advantage and yes even cheat.  I highly doubt that cheating occurs all the time in baseball.  The Astros and the Red Sox are not the only ones, they are the only ones to get caught.  Teams will continue to cheat, it is a fact of the game.  The punishments really will not do anything to curb the ongoing cheating.

 

I love baseball, I love the game in all its aspects.  Sign stealing is honestly a grand tradition of the game.  I was honestly impressed with the system that the Astros came up with.  Would I rather it not be done, of course, but my point is it will continue, unless of course MLB comes up with a nuclear type of option. 



#45 Chez

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:34 AM

I suggest anyone who is interested in this issue read the commissioner's report:

 

https://img.mlbstati...wbkacty27l7.pdf

 

There is nothing "grand" about what the Astros (and apparently the Red Sox) did.  All teams were specifically warned by the Commissioner's office about this type of cheating prior to the 2017 season (after the Red Sox and Yankees were caught using Apple watches to relay information about stolen signs).  The Astros (and apparently the Red Sox) ignored the warnings and failed to implement a culture which discourages cheating. I thought the penalties were severe and deserved --  the maximum fine allowed ($5M), losing their manager and general manager for a year (they were both immediately fired) and forfeiting four draft choices.  If MLB's investigation reveals that the Red Sox engaged in similar conduct, I expect the punishment to be even more severe.  They would be recidivists. Alex Cora could be banned for life.   I think these penalties send the appropriate message to other teams and [hopefully] should serve as a deterrent.       



#46 KevinG

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:41 PM

I suggest anyone who is interested in this issue read the commissioner's report:

 

https://img.mlbstati...wbkacty27l7.pdf

 

There is nothing "grand" about what the Astros (and apparently the Red Sox) did.  All teams were specifically warned by the Commissioner's office about this type of cheating prior to the 2017 season (after the Red Sox and Yankees were caught using Apple watches to relay information about stolen signs).  The Astros (and apparently the Red Sox) ignored the warnings and failed to implement a culture which discourages cheating. I thought the penalties were severe and deserved --  the maximum fine allowed ($5M), losing their manager and general manager for a year (they were both immediately fired) and forfeiting four draft choices.  If MLB's investigation reveals that the Red Sox engaged in similar conduct, I expect the punishment to be even more severe.  They would be recidivists. Alex Cora could be banned for life.   I think these penalties send the appropriate message to other teams and [hopefully] should serve as a deterrent.       

 

When there are potentially billions of dollars involved people will try to do whatever.  Look at the players who use steroids.  It is illegal, it damages their health, and can get them banned from the game.  Yet every year there is a person who gets busted for it.  It all comes down to dollars.  The culture that encourages cheating is capitalism.  Simple as that.  And there is nothing MLB can do to stop it.  If it is not stealing signs, it will be something else.  This is the society we live in.  

 

It also appears that Carlos Beltran is now out as manager of the Mets because of this.  



#47 Oil Can Boyd

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:20 AM

Very bummed about Mookie Betts being traded. 

I get why the management felt like they had to but I'm sure going to miss watching him play.



#48 sonicshoulder

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:27 AM

This is it...its the Reds year. I feel bad for anyone who stands in their way. 3-1 odds to win the central yet somehow picked to finish third. 14-1 to win the NL. 30-1 to win the Series. Best odds we've had in quite a while. I will trade my first born for a Reds World Series 



#49 Lammycat

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:28 PM

Very bummed about Mookie Betts being traded. 

I get why the management felt like they had to but I'm sure going to miss watching him play.

Seriously ditto,andI would not have loved RS ownership giving him the market value to lock him up. Betts is one in a million talent-wise, and it's going to be less enjoyable to root for the team for the next few prime Mookie years. Haven't been this bummed on a trade since Ruth. Heh.



#50 KevinG

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 06:58 AM

Haven't been this bummed on a trade since Ruth. Heh.


How old are you?

#51 sonicshoulder

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 08:22 AM

I pulled 2nd draft position in my fantasy league. Ill end up with Trout, Acuna or Yelich.  I tried to make a case for Betts and or Bellinger being in that tier but I just don't think they are there. I want to think Acuna can match what he did last year but those are really lofty expectations. Regardless I am getting a great player. Fantasy talk says Yelich will be stealing less due to the knee injury. 







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