ginandcigarettes

The first thing to do is figure out how much money you're willing to spend and then what you want to sound like and what features you want.

I'm guessing that since you're looking to sound like Wilco you're going to want piano, some electric pianos, and some organ and synth (but really, not much synth). Really, a good piano sound will get you through most of Wilco's keyboard catalog. Casio, M-Audio, and Yamaha make some decent piano-centric keyboards in the $500-$900 range, but they won't have much of the other sounds (but they probably will have enough that will do fine in a pinch). I neglected to mention that these are hammer-action keyboards so they will feel like a piano -- that may or may not be your thing.

The Nord Electro 2 is a fine choice that has a really good Rhodes EP, a pretty good Wurlitzer, great Clavinet, and excellent Hammond organ. The stock piano is truly awful, but they might have a better version now. You can find a used one for $900-$1000. The Nord Electro 3 is really outstanding and (apparently) has a much better piano, but you'll be spending $2000 new for that guy. These have semi-weighted keys so they feel slightly heavier than a synthesizer, but they're nowhere near a piano. I pretty good compromise since you'd be playing piano and organ from it.

Also check out the Nord Stage if money is no object and the Korg SV-1, which is the Stage's cheaper (but not as versatile) competitor. I haven't played the Nord Stage in a while, but I remember being impressed with its piano and electric piano and less impressed with its synths. The SV-1 has great pianos and EPs, but its organ section is not so hot.

As far as amps, I have a Motion Sound KT-80 and I love it but I don't have a lot of experience with other amps except for older Roland amps that I generally despise. The KT-80 are really uncolored and they have three inputs and a mic input, a tube channel, and an XLR out so you don't need to mic the amp. I actually really love this aspect (though it might be more standard on keyboard amps now, it's been a while since I investigated what's out there), since you can set the amp up for yourself so you have a monitor, and let the sound guy deal with the audience. I personally hate going straight into the board because I can never hear myself. I think the KM-12 has replaced the KT-80 and it looks to lack the tube channel. That sucks.

Also, JBL EON powered speakers are really nice and uncolored. I think Pat Sansone uses a pair for monitors. You're going to spend a little over $500 for either of these amps.

Anyway, let us know more about what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend and we'll see if we can help out.

Cheers!

Does anyone know what type of finish American Standard Teles have?

 

http://guitars.music...itar?sku=515750

 

One day I'd love to buy an American Telecaster, however I want it to age naturally, this would mean I would want a nitro finish, correct?

The American Standards have a polyurethane finish. This doesn't mean it won't age, per se, just that it won't age like guitars from the 50s and early 60s. Starting in the mid-60s, Fender used polyester or polyurethane to finish their guitars. So if you want to see what your urethane-finished guitar will look like in 40 years, go to your vintage guitar shop and look at the Fenders from the 70s. If what you want is the finish to be checked and finger marks worn off the neck, then you'll need to go nitro. If the way 70s guitars age pleases you, then polyurethane is fine.

It'd be nice if instead of making pre-worn guitars, they'd just make new guitars, painted like new, with the same type of paint the use on the road worn series. Paint that will wear in time/with use, unlike the plastic they use on most of their guitars which will still look like new in 1,000 years.

They do; all of Fender's American-made Vintage Reissues are done up in nitrocellulose -- so SpeedRacer's new 52 Reissue will age quite nicely. A couple of their artist-series (like the Eric Johnson strat) are done in nitro, as are the Vintage Hot Rod, and the Highway One (though, like the Road Worn, this has a poly-finished neck).

The thing is, except for the Highway One, these are all higher-ticket guitars.

Maybe it was him. Someone on here used Wal Mart spray paint, and their project came out beautifully. I'll see if I can find the old thread.

Sounds like you remembered it better than me:

I built/refinished my first guitar

I didn't really follow this discussion when it happened, but I talked to him at the First Millennial Southern California Wilco Jam, and I could have sworn it was ReRanch and he also put a short-scale tele neck on it. Maybe he built another one. Or maybe I'm just wrong.

There's one way to know.

A couple years ago a poster (can't remember who it was...is he still around?) showed us his Telecasters that he stripped, refinished and reliced, and walked us through the entire process. It was some really amazing work. I'd love to hear how those guitars are holdign up, and if any more projects have come along.

Ha, I think you're talking about (all-around super nice guy) Andy Miller who got (I think) an unfinished tele body and finished it using ReRanch nitrocellulose lacquer. I saw that tele up close about a year ago and, I tell you, he did a phenomenal job with the finish and the relic'ing; it was a real beauty.

I haven't seen him around here is a while. I hope he posts.

In alphabetical order:

At Least That's What You Said

Bob Dylan's Beard

California Stars (Jay live)

Forget the Flowers (both studio and Jay live)

I'm the Man Who Loves You

Remember the Mountain Bed

Secret of the Sea

Summerteeth

Theologians

That's Not the Issue (Jay, live)

I'm not so against these guitars. If you put aside the relic-ing, a lot of these guitars have some pretty nice features -- in the case of the roadworn tele, ash rather than alder, nitrocellulose rather than polyurethane finish (except, unfortunately, for the neck), tall frets, fat neck, good pups, various 50's accouterments. I think these features don't quite justify its price (which is a couple hundred more than I think it should be), but these guitars can have a nice suite of features that aren't readily available stock on other guitars.

If you're asking whether all-things-being-equal would I rather a relic'ed guitar or an unrelic'ed one, I'd have to go with the pristine one, just because I like my new things new. But I'm not constitutionally opposed to the idea.

I feel contractually obliged to point out that most guitars today are finished in polyurethane and they will not age much beyond picking up scars and gouges and dirt and yellowing of plastic parts. Guitars like the roadworn, the 52 reissue, and a lot of Gibsons are finished in nitrocellulose like the original 50s and 60s models and they will age (more) like those guitars did (which is kind of how we like guitars to age).

Good stuff, the only thing that jumps out is it seems to me like at the 3rd bar it just continues to slide up to the 7th fret on the B string and bend there. It sounds good against the open E string. Then it slides back down using the same drone on the E string. Maybe I'm just taking the easy way out though! Makes the bend easier on the B string!

Hee hee. Yeah, I remember playing around with that before settling on the version that I tabbed for reasons that escape me now (it has been a year). It certainly seems really Jay-like to climb up a single string, but perhaps I thought it would be easy to hook the C# under the fretting fingers at the second position.* Or perhaps I was seduced by the sixteenth-note triplet in bar 4 that seems to pull off onto the open E which is slightly more accessible if you're already down there. I think if I had heard the E-string drone, I would have put it on the 7th fret B-string, though.

Still, I don't know; I've been seriously mistaken in the past so there's no particular reason to think that I nailed it here.

So, as in most things, I defer to whatever works best for you.

* Still, I think it's important to note that there's no particular reason either to think that the guitar solo is a single take and not cobbled together from multiple takes or consisting of multiple overlaid guitars. So dramatic position jumps or notes sounding that might make for weird fingerings might just be two takes or two guitars. In particular:

(1) I remember wondering if the C# might actually be a second guitar. This would make it less weird to have the lick at the 7th fret.

(2) I REALLY wonder if the final bend in bar 12 might be another guitar since I remember thinking that the low G bleeds over it, which you can do if you're into pedal steel bends but it's kind of an out-there technique (that I cannot pull off well -- fret the G with your 3rd finger and PULL the G string TOWARD the high E-string with your 1st and 2nd fingers).

Which is to say, there's no reason to think that the solo can be performed perfectly by a single guitar because it might not have ever been. I might have made a serviceable compromise, but there are other, no doubt better, ones.

I'll be trying this out as well, thanks a bunch. What program did you use for this?

No problem.

I think I used PowerTab; it's not my favorite (well, I haven't used anything else so it might be my favorite by default), which is to say it's not quite as user friendly or intuitive as I would like and I'm not sure why the notes in standard notation are shown as they are played and not as they sound (so when you bend and F# to a G, it's shown as an F#, which is really weird to me for some reason, but that might just be how this stuff is done). PowerTab does have the overriding virtue of being free, however.

Yeah, let me know how this tab works out for you. Suggestions, comments, whatever.

Thank goodness for the return of knobs and switches on keyboards. It was looking pretty bland there for about two decades (80s and 90s), but someone realised that keyboard players are people too.

I'm not sure about that last point, but I totally agree about the knobs and switches; I can't stand scrolling through a dozen menus to find how to boost the treble a tiny bit.

Have you ever played one? How does it play? How doe sit sound?

I have played one but it was 10 years ago so it was before I really knew what I was listening for (not that I particularly know now, but I'm closer). As I remember it was somewhere between a tele and a dano (as one would expect). It didn't exactly blow me away, but it was fun to play.

I went to Best Buy and played a '52 Reissue Tele last night. I'm headed to a guitar store today!

 

I also played the Valvetronix 15W model and had two problems: I couldn't operate the $%3@ing thing with all it's newfangled buttons (fixable), and I didn't like that the headphone jack was 1/8" (not fixable).

 

:wub I think I'm about to get an electric!!

Congratulations! Great guitar!

What the hell is that thing? It sure looks, funky, and it sure has nothing to do with the chicken heads. Is that a built in speaker?

I think it's actually hollow or semi hollow like a Danelectro and it's just made to look like an old-timey radio.

me, I'll stick with the classic version:

preferably on Gretsch Orange.

I think the old Lindert guitars had chicken head knobs. They were kinda fun, quirky guys:

I kinda wish I'd picked one up when they were more common.

sounds like a great guitar, man...and you are totally correct on the electronics, but i love CIJ/MIJ fenders as they are usually great players...

 

 

A mastery is an awesome upgrade, but not cheap...folks use mustang bridges on teles with bigsbys and jazzmasters as well...rollers work well too...as well as the standard T bridges like in this thread: tele forum

Thanks! Yeah, I think I have a Mustang bridge but I couldn't get the action low enough to be comfy for my miniature girl-hands or the radius flat enough to avoid fretting out on high e-string bends.

I've seen some folks use the saddles of the Jaguar for the outside E strings and the Mustang saddles for the inside 4 strings (or maybe it was vice versa). But the point was that you could get a flatter radius and avoid fretting out.

I'm surprised about the recommendation for the Road Worn - I'd imagine they were of lower quality because they're cheaper, but what the hell do I know? They're pretty good, you say?

Well, I think they are worth a look. I haven't as spent much time with one as I would like, so I'm hesitant to make a recommendation. But I think that (if you're not disgusted with the idea of Road Worn) it might be a reasonably priced contender. It does have a nitro-finished ash body (though a poly neck) with big frets and decent (though not great) pickups.

I'm going to head to a few stores in the next few days if I can fit it in, but right now I'm considering an American Tele, the '52 Tele everyone is strong-arming me into ( ), and I have to admit I am also intrigued by the '65 Mustang reissue and the Japanese Tele with Bigsby reissue. I'm a sucker for Bigbys, but if I'm going to get a Tele I really want the maple fretboard.

 

So I'm a mess of decisions, still open to all of your excellent advice ('specially about the Mustang and the Tele/Bigsby), and I'm pretty damned excited about this.

Now there's something I know something about. I have a CIJ Tele Custom with Bigsby and it's my number 1. After a good setup it plays like butter. A couple of thoughts on it (and Japanese reissues and Bigsbys in general):

(1) The electronics are absolute crap. You can wring some bite from the bridge pup, but the neck has really no personality. I replaced them with Seymour Duncan Antiquities. I also had the pots, caps, wire, and switch replaced and now it has some pretty good tone.

(2) The Bigsby bridge is essentially a Jaguar bridge and as such it sucks. It seems that someone was thinking about the best way to have the high e string slip off when you're playing and then designed the Jaguar bridge to most efficiently accomplish this. I replaced it with a Mastery bridge (thanks VCers for the heads up!) and I couldn't be happier (well, I could, but not about the guitar).

Anyhoo, I love this guitar, but it's not perfect out of the box -- you'll need to drop some cash on it to get it up to fighting speed, but it's quite a fighter once you do.

I'm generally annoyed with American Standard Teles as I tend to think that they are just hard-tail strats and have lost a bit of that tele charm. I'd check out the Mexican Tele, Nocaster if you've got the change, the Road-Worn tele, and the Hot-Rod 52 Tele.

I saw this at GC yesterday and thought seriously about getting a job so I could buy it:

Mmmm... 76 weighted keys... superfluous tube... oversized switch... decent sounding piano... me wantee!

so which ones would you suggest for the country/ chicken pickin' thang? (other than the cs2)

The Marshall ED-1 is a good all-around compressor and will get a good country sound, but I just realized that it's no longer made (or at least MF and zzounds no longer carry it).

A lot of folks like the Orange Squeezer for country. I've never used one so I can't say anything. I know that BBE made a squeezer clone, but I think they discontinued it (apparently a lot of my compressor knowledge is outdated). The BiCompRosser has a squeezer clone in it, and you get a nice Ross clone as well.

On the telecaster discussion page I frequent, some people love the Danelectro Surf & Turf. And it's only 30 bucks.

I like the DynaComp for country. Speaking of which, the Keeley is a Ross clone, which is a clone of the original script-logo DynaComp, so there aren't a lot of designs out there. I have a non-Keeley Ross clone that was my number 1 for a number of years; it's got a good country sound with the compression all the way up, but I used it mostly for the indie rock.

Actually, it's hard not to get a good country sound with the compression dimed on any compressor. You might also like the Squeeze setting on the Line6 Constrictor, and the built-in noise gate might be worth the (relatively reasonable) price of admission.

Anyway, check out the Keeley (though the classic voodoo has already surfaced that the old Keeleys are better than the new ones) if you have the cash to drop. But there are really a lot of good options. Just like with overdrive, compression is highly personal and dependent on your amp and your guitar. Try a few out in the store with your amp and guitar (or ones just like them) at volumes that you want to play and see which ones speak to you.

I've heard good things about the Barber Toner Press, but also check out the Guyatone ST-2; it also has a switch (though not a blend knob) for adding the uncompressed signal back into the mix for a more natural sound. I like it a lot, and my friend who's a studio engineer loves it to tears. Everybody's tastes and needs are different, though, so check it out for yourself.

I think the Keeley is a straight Ross clone (albeit with true bypass and not 30 years old) and it's pretty magical (so I'm told), but you can also find other manufacturers making Ross clones or check out BYOC and make your own.

You might also look into Analogman's BiCompRosser, which allows you to switch between a Ross clone and an Orange Squeezer clone. I'd like to nab one of these because I am perpetually unsatisfied with my compressed tone, but I am also poor so I will not be getting one anytime soon (also the waiting list makes me think that no one will be getting one anytime soon).

I've used the Boss CS-3, but I really don't like it. Nels Cline uses one, but he doesn't do as much chick'n pick'n as I do so that brings me to my next point: I suck. Also, different compressors are good for different things and what works for country, doesn't work for rock, doesn't work for jazz. Speaking of which, a lot of Nashville players swear by the Boss CS-2, which you might be able to snag on Ebay.

Also, I hear good things about the Celmo Sardine Can Compressor. It has a switch on it that makes me want it.

I've used the MXR DynaComp for many years and it is very nice. I can't remember why I don't use it more. I should dig that out. I think it didn't quite have the spit that I was looking for. Or to get that spit I had to squash the sound so much that I sucked out a lot of the guitar's natural sound. Still, you might like that.

I like the Marshall ED-1, but I think I'm the only one. I got carried away with the attack knob and annoyed the hell out of my (ex)bandmates.

Also check out the Line 6 compressor. It has three different compressor models and a built-in noise gate. I used one fairly regularly for a while, but mostly because I moved and I was too lazy to dig out my other compressors out of boxes when I had gigs.

I don't know if any of this helped, but hopefully I gave you a few more options to investigate.

Cheers!

Oh FWIW, ginandcigs, I my drummer works at GC and I do tech work for them on occasion...no one is going to have an issue with you bringing in your own rig to demo a pedal...they are all about sales, period. However, you will never get any kind of GC endorsement from me...they are the devil...

Hee hee. I was being a little tongue in cheek there and I was also perhaps generalizing unfairly from my experiences at GC Hollywood, which seems to be staffed by the entire line ups of Cinderella and White Lion who have no doubt gone slightly mad from having to listen to Tracii Guns (look-alike) play deedly deedly deedly deedly deedly for 8 straight hours broken only by some 15 year old trying to play a three-note nu-metal riff with only two notes on a dimed Marshall.

I have been to a GC in Connecticut that was quite pleasant.

That said,

(1) I wish I could play deedly deedly deedly deedly; it sounds pretty cool.

(2) I guess I would agree to have hair-metal hair in my forties if it meant that I would have hair in my forties.

What was I talking about?

irun a epiphone wildkat/fender tele into a 30w Orange Amp. nothingspecial, nothing professional

Hey don't sell your gear short; a lot of great music was made on inexpensive gear. On the Mermaid Avenue tours, Jay Bennett had an army of new Danelectros behind him and they couldn't have been more than $350 a piece. I've seen Jon Brion with a Chamberlin on stage with him, but it didn't get as much work as his Casio keyboard and MicroKorg.

solid reviews....but how do you try out pedals with own guitar/amp without buying them? i guess im stuck buying them. ive thought about the Blues Driver/Bad Monkey, good pedals for the cheap price.

Most of the time this means trying out a pedal and using an amp and guitar at the store that most closely matches your amp and guitar. I used to spend a lot of time at West LA Music* and they have a soundproof(ish) room with all their amps. When I was trying out pedals, I grabbed a Tele off the wall and ran it through a Deluxe Reverb RI and got a pretty good idea of how it all worked together.

I never had the guts to do this, but if your amp or guitar model just isn't at the store, you could ask a clerk if you can bring in yours to try out a pedal. My guess is that they would oblige if (1) they are not Guitar Center, and (2) you've bought at-least-moderate-ticket stuff from them in the past (meaning that you don't just come in to buy strings and try out pedals).

* "Where the Pros Shop"**

** I am not a pro.***

*** They let non-pros shop there too, apparently.

for the money, Digitech Bad Monkey seems like a good OD pedal, For the big money, OCD Fulltone seems like a great OD pedal.

 

I just want to amp up my rockabilly leads and occasional Grateful Dead/Ryan Adams & Cards-type jams....

I've never heard anything but good stuff about the Bad Monkey (though I can't speak as I've never played with one). My friend has an OCD and he loves it, but I've never played through his rig long enough to hear how it worked with me (he has no compressor, so I couldn't say if I would actually sound good with it).

I have a Fulldrive and it's pretty good -- essentially a Tube Screamer clone with an option to kick in an additional stage of boost. It also has a switch to lift out the clipping diodes so it's just clean boost (with all of the overdrive coming from the smashed front end of your amp) and another to voice the pedal with more mids. It's a good, solid, versatile pedal, but it ended up put to the side as I grew tired of that sound. You might love the sound -- very creamy -- but I ended up thinking it sounded too polite; there was not enough danger for me. I keep it around because it is versatile and because of the clean boost feature. If you're thinking about one, check out the MOSFET version, which apparently sounds like God (but with which I have no experience).

I think Ryan Adams uses a Tube Screamer and a Boss Blues Driver. I've also heard good things about the Blues Driver; I bought my dad one for Christmas one year, but I've never had a chance to crank it up on my own rig so I can only say that it sounds pretty good on a homemade Telecaster with basic pickups through a solid state practice amp. Definitely less polite that a Tube Screamer and probably a good complement to one; I can see why Ryan Adams uses both.

Which brings me to a final thought: overdrive is a finicky thing; some pedals sound great with some amps and terrible with others -- same with guitars, same with pickups. I ended up with a lot of expensive gear that other people loved before I learned that. Of course, learning that is half the fun, so don't let me dissuade you, but my advice would be to try out everything with your amp and guitar and see what sounds good to you.

I'm building a pedal board at the moment. How do we all feel about the one spot power supply pedal. I've heard really good things (however I've also heard that they add a bit of fuzz sound). I'm either going with this, or just attaching a power strip

I've used the VooDoo Labs PedalPower, OneSpot, and GodLyke PowerAll and the VooDoo is probably the quietest and overall best, but it just takes up too much real estate on the old pedal board. At some point I needed room for one more pedal and the VooDoo had to go.

The GodLyke is my second favorite, and it's what I use today (and have used for the past three or four years). It's pretty quiet and monstrously convenient. I have a power strip on my pedal board (seeing as I have a couple of effects that actually plug in and also for convenience's sake) and so it works out pretty well. (By the way, having a power strip with a ridiculously long cord has been a godsend -- look into that.)

The OneSpot sounds noisier to me, but this might be my imagination since I've never A/B'ed it with anything else and I tend to use a lot of compression since I'm insecure about my technique which makes everything noisy. I've used it a bunch, but I'm more comfortable with the GodLyke as it seems to me a lot less noisy (and perhaps not noisy at all).

I think both the GodLyke and the OneSpot have some issues with the Line6 big-ass pedals, though (the ones with four switches), and add a bit of noise when they're in the chain. I can't remember if this is the case, but I have my DL4 plugged into its own power supply, so I must have believed the rumor at some point.

There seems to be a lot of support here for the VooDoo Labs, so if you're dead set on that one, I'll sell you my old one (I think a II+) complete with original box and sticker. It's in really good condition and has Velcro already on the bottom. I can make a you pretty good deal. PM me if you're interested.

I hope this helps!

I hear you. And this is kind of surprising, given Jay's penchant for experimenting with sound in terms of engineering techniques and finding new keyboards, etc. i wonder why he didn't mess around with pedals more.

Well, we should probably distinguish between his live rig and what he did on record (even though I tend to think that he favored using an odd instrument on record than trying to make a normal instrument odd).

I think we're also comparing really early Jay when he was in a country band to really late jay when he was a solo artist and ignoring a good chuck of Jay history. Yeah, in the early and late periods, Jay didn't use many pedals. But he (over)used a wah-wah on the Being There tour and at least had some kind of phaser or flanger to get a Leslie-like effect on Outtamind Outtasite (check out the recording of Jay's last Wilco show).

Certainly he cranked Fender amps on solo shows (he had a tweed Bandmaster the first time I saw him and a Hot Rod Deluxe the second time), but you can hear the unmistakable sound of a Vox AC30 on a lot of Wilco live tracks (and I think spy one on their

jay also had good taste in rugs

Hee hee. That is, in point of fact, the house rug at the Silverlake Lounge. That is to say, that rug is just the rug that has always been on the stage there.

It is, however, a good rug. I have played at the Silverlake Lounge on several occasions (typically the 8:00 or midnight time slots -- you know, where they stick bands that no one wants to see) and always enjoyed the rug. I have even gone so far as to have a lie down on the rug in the middle of a set when I got SMASHINGLY drunk during a show a few days after a particularly bad breakup.

The other times I got drunk during the set and had to lie down I have no excuse for.