MattZ

Speaking of people making less than 250k, apparently, NYC is considering a plastic bag tax. You get charged for each plastic bag that you walk out of a supermarket with.

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Can you elaborate a bit about this "property tax referendum" that you reference above? I assume that this was a referendum voted on by the people? If so, they shouldn't be surprised or upset. And it looks like you are passing on the increased operating costs to the people that made their bed. Are you passing 100% on? If so, seems like you came out ok. What does this have to do with Obama and 250k? People keep suggesting that Obama's tax hikes will hurt people that make less than 250k. This has nothing to do with that, right? And if you pass on 100% of the expense, this tax hike cer

He would say that you don't know what you are talking about. So there's that.

Thanks BT. I knew I could count on you.

I dont know, man. The people in the crowd are looking up at them. Seems real to me. You're probably right though. Man, I really hate that the internet forces you (me) to approach every cool thing with a degree of skepticism. Sucks.

Well that just about made my day.

Yeah, post some pics so I can live vicariously through you!

Now that I've spent entirely too much time, effort and brain power essentially arguing about the difference between a bigot and racist, I am going to bang my head against a wall for awhile and self-impose a hiatus on myself from this thread. I deserve to be punished.

I have not, but I am sure it has happened before. Of course. If you scroll back a few pages, I admitted that as a policy it opens up some very dangerous doors. But I do think it can be implemented in such a way as to not "unfairly" pass over qualified applicants. I do have to say though, this is sort of my point -- any time a law is passed to "benefit" one race, the other race may feel (rightly or wrongly) that its rights have been curtailed. That's certainly the case with an affirmative action program that is poorly implemented. Thanks, Mr. H. Another person doing a better job of s

Nice job summarizing in one sentence what this idiot has been trying say over three f*cking pages. Thanks.

Look, clearly this discussion isn't worth continuing. Not sure why -- I think on the whole it's been interesting and respectful. I do think that members of Race B in your example (historically) have argued that they are being harmed. As I mentioned earlier -- see affirmative action as an example. Many white people believe that affirmative action is racist. I just don't agree with it.

By definition, acting to help one race is acting to hurt another race, no? I think it's interesting to consider the implications of that, and whether it's racist or not. I just happen to think that not every race-based action is racist. I am very well prepared to shut up if others don't want to discuss it anymore. x2

I think it's too wide. Although it's probably more like claiming that desegregating buses in the south is racist against white people because they had fewer places to sit. Not every race-based action is racist.

Oh, and um, apparently the stock market didn't get the Obama memo about hope and change.

Of course. I meant the affirmative action curveball as (potential) evidence for the point that not every single race-based decision is racist on its face (no pun intended). Bobbob seemed to be suggesting that any race-based decision was inappropriate out of hand. I certainly agree that affirmative action opens a door to possible problems.

bobbob, you didnt answer my question about affirmative action -- I assume you think it's racist?

Yes, bobbob, if I misunderstood your question, then you are right. The black guy who casts an anti-white vote is just as bad as the white guy who casts an anti-black vote.

Now you're twisting what I am saying. I am not justifying racism. I just don't think it is racist. I dont think the hypothetical black man voting for Obama because he is black is casting an Anti-White vote. I just don't. If you do, fine, we disagree. I don't think all race-based actions are racist. I also don't think affirmative action is racist. Some people do. Do you? In that situation, I can understand the argument (even if I don't agree with it). The minority student gets in at the expense of the hypothetically just as qualified white student. In an election, I just don't see t

Also, bobbob, I am not giving either the white guy or the black guy, the benefit of the doubt in your example. I assume they are both solely motivated by race in this hypothetical discussion. I don't think all race-based decisions are racist.

I am not sure what isn't fair about it. If you want to suggest that race based actions of any kind are inappropriate, that's fine. At the same time, you said you were interested to hear responses to your point about the white guy voting for McCain. As I said, a black guy votes for Obama because he's black. A white guy votes for McCain because Obama is black. That is a crucial difference. Its simply not the same action, as you continue to suggest. You may think it's inapproriate, but they are not the same thing. And I dont think it's fair for you to equate them.

I don't think it is hypocritical to suggest that your hypothetical "white guy voting for McCain" is motivated by fear or hatred of blacks. Or put another way, that the vote can be recharacterized as an anti-Obama vote. That is racist. A vote for Obama because he is black is not an anti-White vote. It is not a vote against McCain because he is white. I see an important difference there. In your example, the black guy votes for Obama because he's black. The white guy votes for McCain because Obama is black.

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To me, it's a bigger and more historical event that a black man can stand up and be viewed as a man. Not a black man. Yes, bigger than the fact that we elected a black man as president. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I wish the media were covering that story more. (And I think that's what EL is saying too). A black kid growing up today has a better chance to be whatever he wants to be because people don't see Obama as a black man. Not because one black guy got elected president.