ChooChooCharlie

If you're going to keep bringing [my age] up, I'm going to keep telling you to go fuck yourself.

You've been the most consistently combative person (in the last political thread), so I thought you had a little thicker skin than that. I don't talk authoritatively about elections that happened before I could vote for a reason. That's why I brought it up. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess the difference between the two statements above is that I couldn't care less about the 'fucking of self' comments. Actually, they were kinda funny....

And really, how are stolen elections that much different from 9/11 conspiracies if you don't believe in them?

Extraordinarily different. The former has tangible evidence reported widely by hundreds of credible sources. The latter......doesn't.

I read the links she posted, and I'm not convinced. Were there irregularities? Obviously. But they appear to have happened on the local side of things, and don't really show me a grand operation from the tops of the GOP. I really don't think I've ignored the explanations, they just aren't convincing enough to me. Like I said earlier, when you are going to make allegations that are that serious, the burden of proof is on your. And in my opinion, those links don't prove much more than incompetence on a small scale that served only to magnify that Bush got more votes.

 

I love that you are the only person who has brought up my age in this thread, not once but twice. How about you go fuck yourself?

You sound angry........again Bob. You questioned points myself and others made -- and in turn, I gave you a paragraph of facts, and others supplied links. Then you lumped stolen elections in with radical 9/11 theories. When you put your credibility at issue in that obvious of a way, your age was one of a few relevant points. No reason to be insecure man -- I wish I was 20....

I still can't believe how prevalent the "it can't happen here" attitude still is.

I'm reading the link you posted and, quite frankly, it all seems like conspiracy theories to me. No concrete evidence, and if you're going to make allegations like that, the burden of proof is on you.

 

I put this in the same boat with the 9/11 truthers.

That's convenient. You were 12 and 16 respectively during the elections we're debating, so unless you were an unusually sophisticated pre-teen and teen, you probably didn't gain much first-hand knowledge about whether these elections were stolen or not. Then you don't educate yourself about them ("I've heard some stuff"). Then you get provided with links, and an explanation to your questions on this board and you ignore them. Then you lump the truth you wish was false with a radical theory about 9/11 in a lame attempt to discredit it. Your credibility is not at an all-time high Bob.

well then yes, by all means, we shouldn't be looking to get more. that would be stupid.

at the expense of developing alternative fuel sources -- yes, that would be stupid. Even conservative estimates of drilling for more oil indicate we won't get it for a decade and it will account for a fraction of our need. Very, very stupid -- at least as the bulk of the plan.

The election theft issue is the elephant in the room. If you think there is no proof of this, you're not interested in it because it favors your team or you just don't give a damn.

nailed it.

Halliburton was profiteering and therein lies the difference.

well played.

I mean, I've seen some stuff. It's all mostly allegations, nobody's ever concretely proven that they 'stole' the election. You also didn't mention 2004, which you said they stole as well.

Just like no one has concretely proven evolution. But there are some pretty solid "allegations" that its goin down.

And I never said they stole 2004. Check the thread. Someone else said that. I do think there was voter suppression and corruption in Ohio in 2004, but I'm not positive that election was fraudulently obtained. I think people broke the law to get Bush elected, but he may have been elected anyway -- from what I've read, its a close call.

there's a long list of shady operations among oil companies. Look It Up. basically today's military-industrial complex is its own indictment.

The FACT that oil companies are the highest profits in their history at the same time gas prices are the highest they've ever been is all the evidence I need (not to mention at a time where the current administration has long-standing ties with the oil industry). But I suppose that's all a coincidence.

I'm going to need more proof than Charlie and Dennis Kucinich saying "it is". I love Dennis, but I'm not going to take him for his word on this one.

If you don't know more about the 2000 election through the thousands of articles, books, videos, documentaries, and movies than I don't know what to tell you. VERY briefly: Bush gets elected through voter disenfranchisement and fraud in a state where his brother is in charge of making sure there is no disenfranchisement or fraud, then the Supreme Court grants certiorari where they had no business granting it, because SC justices nominated by Bush's dad or during his Vice-Presidency want to. Those judges stop the recount. Bush still loses popluar vote, but gets elected through the arcane electoral college system. There are dozens of other examples of voter suppression, limiting resources in democratic districts to increase voter waiting times to deter democratic voting, 90+% of votes in long-standing democratic districts going to Bush, and corruption at all state and local levels by the Florida Republican administration -- but frankly, the whole thing disgusts me too much to give you the whole version in answering your question (and I simply don't have the time). This serving as one of the lowest points in democratic history -- it is well-documented.

Oh wow! Well, it must be true.

It is. It most definitely is. I think its funny conservatives even deny it anymore. If I were a conservative I would just brag about it.

Yeah, you kept saying you had me on ignore...

Ok sweetie, you did the same thing. Show me please how she is qualified and perhaps I will bite it. Show me even a link the size of my..v____a.

now thats a motherflippin post.

Pft

SHE'S A POLITICIAN!

I fail to see a point among the capital letters.

That was funny when Tucker pulled that one out!

http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/09/02/...explain-it-all/

I saw this live and it was hillarious. I love the National Gaurd Commander-in-Chief argument (analogous to the "executive-politician" bullshit). I played with G.I. Joe as a kid so I'm qualified to be Commander-in-Chief too.

Show me how she is qualified to be President of the United States of America please.

This is nothing more than my intuition talking -- but I would bet dollars to pesos Sarah Palin will go down as the worst VP pick in recent history. Of the many videos I've watched of Palin speaking, articles I've read, quotes from her family, daughter's pregnancy vs. her abstinence stance, a husband who could get very interesting, and a political life in Alaska antithetical to that of D.C. -- I don't think she has any idea what she and her family have gotten themselves into. I think this is gonna be ugly. I actually feel kinda sorry for the entire family.

to be fair on the auspices of 'seeing what you want to see'...didn't they tell her a couple of times not to cross the police barricade or she'd be arrested? and then she did so anyhow? hardly antagnostic, but she hardly stood in one place either. should she have been arrested, probably not...but she didin't have to cross the line either.

The first time I heard any police ask anyone not to cross some line was after she had been pulled along and the arrest had began. I tried to watch the video again from your point of view, and have personally concluded the video is inconclusive of fault on either side.

Yes, because the best way to get the answers to those questions is to ask the policemen stationed on the front line of protection, and the video undoubtedly starts right at the moment she arrived at that location.

Since the arrest of the producers at least appeared to be recent, that was the best way at that time. I'm a prosecutor very familiar with filing charges, and your assumptions about inquiries into arrests is as immature as your choice of 'emoticon'. Its a bureaucratic mess and she would be fortunate to get any answers that day at all.

As a prosecutor, I tend to give the benefit to law enforcement, but there has been a pattern of 1st Amendment suppression at and leading up to the RNC with the raids and the reflexive arrests. I hope some credible media outlets are doing some real journalism here to find out the facts -- if they are allowed, that is.

that would have worked far better if you'd have said "bored discussion"

I laughed my ass off when I read that.

You gotta hand it to her for her ability to manipulate. Freedom of the press doesn't involve antagonizing riot police and there are plenty of other proper methods to go about asking the questions she wanted to ask and the right people in charge to ask.

 

But she got her video of her being arrested and the ability to say how outrageous it all was.

What evidence do you have of her antagonizing police? Were we watching the same video? One second she's standing in one place, asking why her producer has been arrested for covering the protests, and the next second she's being pushed around and cuffed.

Gotta hand it to you for your ability to only see what you want to see.

although far from an unknown album, Lou Reed's Transformer is in my top 5 all-time, and when I bring it up among even music savvy groups, I tend to get more crickets than knowledge.

As for "fuck": I maintain it's just a word, there's no need to get riled up or offended about it, especially if it's used simply as an additive to a sentence. But whatever.

bob, you sound angry.

Could all of you please try acting your ages and retire the tiresome and gratuitous use of "fucking". Not funny or emphatic, just coarse and inappropriate on an all-ages board. Also, try disagreeing without resorting to personal attacks. It's childish.

 

Don't make me turn this car around.

I am totally with you and this has been annoying me too. But in fairness to Bob"F'ing"Bob1313 -- he lists his age as 20........so I guess he kinda is "acting his age"........

I watched only a few minutes of the convention today -- a couple of observations:

 

1. Laura Bush reminds me of a Stepford Wife

 

2. I looked for a non-white face, but didn't see one. I'll keep looking.

1. Isn't she?

2. Ooo, I know. Didn't John McCain father a black child out of wedlock? Maybe she is there?!

Either everyone who believes in god is batshit insane, or nobody is. There really isn't any room for a middle ground here.

Middle ground: Science plus spirituality. Not believing in evolution isn't insane to me, its just stupid. Not everything is black and white like Bush would like us to believe.

of course not. but many republicans give obama zero credit for NOT attacking with dirt, both during the primaries and now, when he could have done so hundreds of times and over countless issues. he has done way more to keep it clean and not hit below the belt than i've seen in many years. that's some meaningful (to me) change right there, and he's not even in office. yet.

No but they go about it with a special zeal that democrats can not (or maybe will not) emulate. Imagine if the reaction if Chelsea Clinton had been preggers at 17? Amy Carter? heck both of those girls were trash3ed incessantly by the right. Imagine the outcry if the democrats went after McCains military service the way the Bushies went after Kerry's? The reasoning back then was that Kerry had made that the centerpiece of his campaign, heck the way I see it that is the center piece of McCains campaign. Imagine the outcry if the democrats attacked McCain the way bush did in 2000? Right now the right refuses to acknowledge that maybe Obama is doing a much better job of staying abouve the shit than has occurred in many recent campaigns? They won't acknowledge it because that is how they roll.

Politicians tend to not get their hands dirty, especially when they've got millions of people who will eagerly do it for them.

Republicans don't need millions -- Rove designs the Swiftboating tactic and delegates to PACs technically separate from the campaign.

BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!

 

BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!

Wow. Conflict resolution is clearly not Bob Squared's strength. You're so pissed its like the VP just shot you in the face or something.

FWIW, I cut ties with all my friends who liked Titanic.

Great minds Beltmann -- I cut ties with all my friends who liked the Bush administration too.

'Liberals in america'

I am not a fan of labels.

Amen Edie. I don't like 'em in my music or my politics. Trite.