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bobbob1313

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Posts posted by bobbob1313

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    I think it's just a matter of being more precise about what I meant about doing it on their own. I never meant to suggest that Magic didn't have Kareem, Jordan didnt have Pippen (and Rodman), etc. It's not revisionist, though.

     

    I think the argument is that Jordan and the Bulls didn't win a title until 1990. His first year in the league was 1984. Jordan didn't jump ship to join forces with Magic and the Lakers because he wanted to win so badly. It wasn't just about rings to Jordan. He had to be the main alpha dog on his team. He had to be the best. Yes, his GM got him Pippen, Rodman, etc. But this was Jordan's team. The Heat are Wade's team.

     

    Does this, in your mind, tarnish Wade's legacy as a "The Man"? He actively recruited both Bosh and LeBron to join him, isn't that just as bad?

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Well now I just feel bad.

     

    (Note: Yes I do realize my MLB team is basically a joke, my NFL team hasn't been to a Super Bowl since 4 years before I was born, and my NHL team might just be the worst franchise in professional sports.)

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    So let's play out a hypothetical based on what people are saying:

     

    Wade and LeBron continue on their respective career paths as far as points and stats and everything. LeBron is clearly a better player than Dwyane Wade and is going to put up a far more prolific career.

     

    Let's say they win 3 titles together over an 8 year period. Wade's got 4, LeBron's got three, but LeBron only won his because of Wade, right?

     

    So is Wade a tier higher because he happened to play with better teammates earlier in his career and then decided to stay in Miami and play with LeBron?

     

    If both Wade and LeBron had gone to Chicago to play together, would they both be "chickenshits" or would it still just be LeBron? Is LeBron the only one who suffers historically from this whole episode? I mean, we're talking about two players who might go down as top 25 players EVER, will both be stained?

     

    dit Part Deux: In my eyes and imagination all of these "The Man" fans are rubbing these guys' egos. They're like little minions from Despicable Me (now in theaters) rubbing every inch of these players with all of this nonsense. Then they get mad and play dumb when someone does an egotistical thing (read: The Decision). Gee...I wonder how it came to that point.

    Welcome to America.

     

    LeBron's been "The King", "The Chosen One" etc since he was 15, and we're all shocked that he has this ego.

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Which is, of course, total fucking bunk. Those players were great players, and would have been no matter what. Would they have won as many rings if they didn't play with their respective superstars? Of course not, but their respective superstars wouldn't have won as many rings without them.

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Isiah never played with a single player that was as good as Pippen, McHale, or the rest of them, but those Championship teams were very deep and versatile. They had an answer for everyone, and could throw out a bunch of different styles at you.

     

    That was a team in the truest sense of the word. They traded their highest scorer in 88-89 and got better.

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Couldn't agree more. I am not sure we should celebrate the qualities that made Jordan, Kobe, etc., who they are. Jordan's competitiveness probably borders on the pathological.

     

    Is it any wonder most of the capital G Great athletes can't seem to keep their shit together off the playing field?

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    The moral of the story: the salary cap has failed.

     

    You're talking about last year when the Lakers won the Championship with a $90 mil payroll that will, in all likelihood, dwarf what the Heat's payroll will be next year, right?

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Matt, I know you aren't really killing LeBron for this, so this is more of a general post than specifically directed towards you:

     

    Well, most of those alpha dog greatest players ever are crazy. Most of them have behavior on (and, oftentimes, off the court) that would be considered socially reprehensible if it wasn't for the fact that they apply it to something that doesn't matter. Most of them are gigantic jerks who have no sense of what is real in their lives.

     

    It's a little bit funny how in sports we celebrate actions that we would be outraged with if the guy in our office did that. If Michael Jordan worked in Accounting and was doing stuff like punching the Steve Kerr of accounting in the face, he wouldn't be looked at as a hero. He would be looked at as a crazy person. Because he was a crazy person.

     

    I understand the argument that MJ and Kobe never would have done what LeBron did, but I'm not going to put LeBron down because he doesn't have a borderline psychopathic desire to crush people. We're holding him to a standard of our own creation that has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with us. We believe in order to be great, you have to want to kill your opponent. That's fine, that's the standard we've put up for sports superstars, but it's not LeBron's failing. It's ours. It's unreasonable for us to demand this from someone.

    2010 NBA Playoffs

    in Tongue-Tied Lightning

    Posted

    Had Sportscenter on this morning for a couple of minutes before heading out to work. The big 3 were in a studio being interviewed by someone from espn (I dont remember who). The interviewer directed the first question, "what will it be like for the 3 of you to play together??", to Wade. Lebron sat there listening as Wade got first crack at the question.

     

    SexNap, I disagree. The larger point isn't the histrionics. The larger point is that MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, etc., would have had no part of sitting there silent while someone else answered a question like that. No way.

     

    Anyway, good for Lebron. I am not suggesting he has to be an ego-driven madman hellbent on demonstrating his superiority over every other ballplayer who ever lived. Let him enjoy South Beach and win a few rings. I am not being judgmental. Just observing the reality. He is cut from a different cloth than the best players in NBA history. Winning rings wasn't enough for them. They were the alpha dogs.

     

    I liked Isiah Thomas' take on this idea of being the Alpha Dog:

     

    Only Isiah Thomas made it sound like it was any kind of possible. Thomas was a champion and Hall of Famer and star before he was the basketball coach at FIU. I asked him, in his prime, how he would have felt if someone of the stature of James came to his team to overshadow him.

     

    "I would feel lucky," he said.

     

    Not threatened?

     

    "Sometimes the moment calls for you to step forward," he said. "Sometimes the moment calls for you to step back."

     

    But what about the idea that stars don't merely want to win but want to be the reason for winning?

     

    "Those are the guys who always lose," Thomas said. "Those are the guys that champions prey on. Those are the losers."

     

    That sounds good, right? So does this:

     

    "If real winning is what you are pursuing, ego and money and glory don't get in the way," Thomas said. "Great players always play well together until they win the championship. That's when the `disease of more' creeps in. But LeBron hasn't won. There's always an ego sacrifice with winning. Pau Gasol and Ron Artest can do a lot more scoring elsewhere. Kareem was the greatest player ever, and he gave room to Magic. Do you want to be The Man or do you want to be a champion? What really matters to you?"

     

    (Say what you want about Isiah the Coach, or GM or man, but the guy had an idea of what it took to win as a player. Bill Simmons' Book of Basketball has a great section about Isiah and "The Secret" to winning.)

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