JUDE Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 If by some stroke of misfortune one ends up in this position, it is possible to increase the amount of money you make over time. In some cases, short periods of time. No one is locked into minimum wage for an extended period of time. Minimum wage is starting pay. If you are content with that, so be it - I have no sympathy. Come on, everyone knows that karma dictates your position in life including your employment options, and everyone knows you can't change your karma. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ScottHoward Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 So by your argument there should be no minimum wage then.Nope, that's ridiculous. There obviously has to be some bottom to it, but I dont think people should complain about it. Work hard and you'll be rewarded. If you choose not to work yourself out of a situation, then I have no sympathy for it. The opportunity is out there. Even if you go from $6/hr to $8/hr in a year, that's still another $320 pre-tax, per month. On the scales we're talking about, that makes a huge difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Nope, that's ridiculous. There obviously has to be some bottom to it, but I dont think people should complain about it. Work hard and you'll be rewarded. If you choose not to work yourself out of a situation, then I have no sympathy for it. The opportunity is out there. Even if you go from $6/hr to $8/hr in a year, that's still another $320 pre-tax, per month. On the scales we're talking about, that makes a huge difference. so there should be a minimum wage but noone should complain about it??? WTF?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ScottHoward Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 so there should be a minimum wage but noone should complain about it??? WTF??If you work for minimum wage, dont bitch about it. Work hard and change your situation. How hard is that to understand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I wish those congressmen making minimum wage would stop bitching about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ScottHoward Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'll take fries with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'm admittedly pretty dense, but if the minimum wage is raised, wouldn't any business that pays its employees minimum wage then pass along those increases to consumers? And wouldn't the overall effect be that the new wage = the old wage, relative to cost of living? Or am I completely dumb? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yes! Those fast food workers should shut up and work as hard as Scott Howard who is spending his hard working Monday am jagging off on a wilco message board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'm admittedly pretty dense, but if the minimum wage is raised, wouldn't any business that pays its employees minimum wage then pass along those increases to consumers? And wouldn't the overall effect be that the new wage = the old wage, relative to cost of living? Or am I completely dumb? Naw. That Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ScottHoward Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 IRememberScoopingIceCreamForMinimumWageButIWas14IWorkedHardAndNowMakeEnoughMoneyToJagoffOnAWilcoMessageBoard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Naw. That Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WilcoFan Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Huh? Who said anything about more anything?? I just don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Who possibly tries to make a career out of minimum wage?Unfortunately, I know a great number of families in NM survive, just barely, on minimum wage. If by some stroke of misfortune one ends up in this position, it is possible to increase the amount of money you make over time. In some cases, short periods of time. No one is locked into minimum wage for an extended period of time. Minimum wage is starting pay. If you are content with that, so be it - I have no sympathy.It really is not that simple for a great number of people in this country. It used to frustrate me and I had the same opinion. But after being heavily involved in the debate in NM I have a better understanding of the struggles so many face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
groselicain Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 fukk them. They got sickeningly wealthy by living in this country and using its infrastructure. They need to shut the fukk up and pay their taxes and trust me I pay out the tailhole.someone saying something stupid who isn't me... i like you... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I admittedly don't have a hell of a lot to add to the conversation, but facts about the minimum wage increase from the Economic Policy Institute (a non-partisan think-tank of economists with often varied views) debunk some of the concerns brought up in this thread. I was most surprised by the amount of adults who would be positively affected by the increase, and by the fact that a wage increase is long overdue. I've highlighted some points I found particularly revealing: From the link: http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides...ge_minwagefacts A minimum wage increase would raise the wages of millions of workers. * An estimated 14.9 million workers (11% of the workforce) would receive an increase in their hourly wage rate if the minimum wage were raised from $5.15 to $7.25 by 2008. Of these workers, 6.6 million workers (5% of the workforce) currently earn less than $7.25 and would be directly affected by an increase. The additional 8.3 million workers (6% of the workforce) earning slightly above the minimum would also be likely to benefit from an increase due to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 someone saying something stupid who isn't me... i like you... whats stupid about what i said?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Another thing to think about vis-a-vis the estate/death tax (from earlier in the thread), is that while it may be true that 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth it is also true (I would think) that a large percentage of that 10% also started and run the very companies that many of us work at. For example, I am sure that the President and CEO of my company is in the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans. Maybe even top 1%. But he got that way by starting a business, sticking his neck out, and building something that not only was successful for himself, but gives 30 other people well-paying jobs. Given these facts, I am sympathetic to the arguments against the death/estate tax. Do I want an aristocracy? No. Do I think its fair that some people have more money than they know what to do with? No. Did I get off my lazy ass and start a profitable company that provides jobs to others? No. I know this issue isnt black and white, and there are too many caveats to hit on all the issues. I know that taxing the top 1% estates brings people from insanely wealthy to silly wealthy. But you cant make a blanket statement that "rich people should pay their fair share" -- rich people do pay a high percentage of their income in taxes. 50% in NY, actually. People may not think that is good enough, but there is a fine line between taxing fairly and incentivizing entrepeneurs. Not to mention, this is a capitalist society -- not a socialist one... Anyway, just my two cents. I know I make the issue sound simpler than it is, because so many of the wealthiest Americans inherit their wealth, but those that do, have relatives that probably started something (a company, for example) that made a lot of money. And one of the rewards for doing that in this society, is being able to provide for your children and your children's children. Its part of the reason that some folks (like me) were sitting on a couch drinking beer and playing Madden in college and others were in the library. In a way, I agree with ScottHoward on this. I dont think everyone has the same opportunities in life, but I do think, to a large extent, many people make their beds. I dont think its my place to demand that other people pay more in taxes because I thought it was more important to get drunk in college. (I still do think its better to get drunk in college, for the record) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I'm all for raising the minimum wage a bit to reflect cost of living expectations and if I have to donate a very small portion of my pay-check to keep the people who are doing all the menial tasks I don't want to/have to do happy, so be it. While some people are truly victims of circumstance, a lot of folks lack ambition to strive for attaining financial comfort and beyond. For these people, they are content in surviving pay-check-to pay-check. This doesn't mean they should not be fairly compensated for their jobs, though. I give them credit for working and trying instead of looking for hand-outs, and an adjusted pay-rate is only fair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 So is it wrong to think that the minimum wage should be 20.00 and hour and that the estate tax should be 80 percent?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WilcoFan Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I admittedly don't have a hell of a lot to add to the conversation, but facts about the minimum wage increase from the Economic Policy Institute... * Wage inequality has been increasing, in part, because of the declining real value of the minimum wage. Today, the minimum wage is 31% of the average hourly wage of American workers, the lowest level since the end of World War II. And for those who have read about the end of WWII, wages were artifically low because many unions and workers took concessions because everyone was 'doing their part' to fight the war. After the war there were huge strikes by organized labor to make up those lost earnings. Today's lowest paid segment has nobody to look out for them. The organized labor unions that remain are generally powerless and are in bed with the big companies. This of course brings it all back to my chronic complaint of the $5-a-day starbucks addiction this country has instead of an education addiction. The customer service enterprise provides just that: servitude. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Another thing to think about vis-a-vis the estate/death tax (from earlier in the thread), is that while it may be true that 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth it is also true (I would think) that a large percentage of that 10% also started and run the very companies that many of us work at. For example, I am sure that the President and CEO of my company is in the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans. Maybe even top 1%. But he got that way by starting a business, sticking his neck out, and building something that not only was successful for himself, but gives 30 other people well-paying jobs. Given these facts, I am sympathetic to the arguments against the death/estate tax. Do I want an aristocracy? No. Do I think its fair that some people have more money than they know what to do with? No. Did I get off my lazy ass and start a profitable company that provides jobs to others? No. I know this issue isnt black and white, and there are too many caveats to hit on all the issues. I know that taxing the top 1% estates brings people from insanely wealthy to silly wealthy. But you cant make a blanket statement that "rich people should pay their fair share" -- rich people do pay a high percentage of their income in taxes. 50% in NY, actually. People may not think that is good enough, but there is a fine line between taxing fairly and incentivizing entrepeneurs. Not to mention, this is a capitalist society -- not a socialist one... Anyway, just my two cents. I know I make the issue sound simpler than it is, because so many of the wealthiest Americans inherit their wealth, but those that do, have relatives that probably started something (a company, for example) that made a lot of money. And one of the rewards for doing that in this society, is being able to provide for your children and your children's children. Its part of the reason that some folks (like me) were sitting on a couch drinking beer and playing Madden in college and others were in the library. In a way, I agree with ScottHoward on this. I dont think everyone has the same opportunities in life, but I do think, to a large extent, many people make their beds. I dont think its my place to demand that other people pay more in taxes because I thought it was more important to get drunk in college. (I still do think its better to get drunk in college, for the record) Well put. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 OK, how about a 15 percent flat tax? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 OK, how about a 15 percent flat tax? Exactly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shortage of Cashews Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 This hike won't matter because every time the minimum wage increases, so does the cost of living. Until a wage hike is not met with a cost of living increase, it's just for show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 But he got that way by starting a business, sticking his neck out, and building something that not only was successful for himself, but gives 30 other people well-paying jobs... Did I get off my lazy ass and start a profitable company that provides jobs to others? No.I'm sympathetic to this point-of-view, certainly, and grateful to the small business owners who contribute to the economies of their communities by providing jobs with decent wages. But I'm also keenly aware that many "successful" people found success by accessing their privileged circumstances and by exploiting those in unprivileged circumstances. To use an exaggerated example, the Walton family has willfully amassed their fortune on the backs of disadvantaged, desperate workers who, yes, actually do work their asses off, too, with none of the financial reward. I'm not suggesting rich people don't pay their fair share in taxes; I'm suggesting that some "successful" business owners don't give a fair share back to the workers who were instrumental in helping them build their fortune. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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