Has Jeff ever talked about Elliott Smith in interviews etc

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I like turtles.

You're a great zombie.

[Littlebear]

Please Be Patient With Me has very Elliott Smith style chords I think.

 

Ever heard Elizabeth Cotten's "Freight Train"?

[Littlebear]

OK, just for the record: Jim Morrison was not a genius or a good lyricist. He was a rambling drunken asshole who became convinced through positive reinforcement he was an enlightened philosopher and a revolutionary artist. He was, in fact, quite the opposite. I hate seeing talent like Jimi Hendrix lumped in with Jim Morrison. Jimi Hendrix taught people new ways of looking at the guitar and was legitimately interested in a process of exploration within himself. Jim Morrison was just some moderately good looking guy who thought he was hot shit. It doesn't matter what kind of drugs that guy did, he was always an asshole and never talented.

 

That's total bullshit. The Doors had a great sound, and Jim Morrison was a charismatic singer and showman. Listen to Morrison Hotel again. I'm not with those who think he was a genius, but falling in the opposite way is more unfair again.

[Littlebear]

One need look no further than popular country music for examples of what happens when drugs are replaced by booze

[Lammycat]

That's total bullshit. The Doors had a great sound, and Jim Morrison was a charismatic singer and showman. Listen to Morrison Hotel again. I'm not with those who think he was a genius, but falling in the opposite way is more unfair again.

Morrison may have been "charismatic" and a "good showman" but as a lyricist/"genius" he falls quite short of the mark. Which is, I believe, all giraffo said (correct me if I'm wrong here, giraffo). I agree with him.

 

Whether or not The Doors had a great sound is, as it is with any art, subjective. To some the music is dated and juvenile.

 

But this thread is about drugs, right? I'd be willing to wager that more talent has been squandered due to excessive drug use than enhanced. Sure, you get a Ray Charles here and there (who regularly used heroin for a good chunk of his career) but what're the odds?

[Littlebear]

"he was always an asshole and never talented"

 

That's the conclusion of the guy, Lammycat. The fact that Jim was an asshole or not is hardly a musical opinion, and it's a mistake to judge an artist that way. And to deny the fact he was talented is also a mistake, whether you consider an opinion is subjective or not. He had talent. Without him the Doors would have been nothing. He gave substance to their music, by his voice, his presence, his human being, whether he was an asshole or not, and whether his lyrics were weak or not. If anybody could do what he did, he would have remained perfectly anonymous, like most of us regarding stage acts or rock performances.

 

Let's be fair, that's all I say. Jim Morrison was something, for rock music sake. As John Lennon or Iggy Pop or Mick Jagger are/were something on stage, too.

 

Just to see Jim sing was something. Just to see him full of anger was something. Would you deny he was a real rebel and died of it? What kind of people can state he was just an asshole without sounding like a moralist that can hardly make a point on a rock subject?? Is it just about music? No. Rock never was just about music. That was the point of all that 70's movement that people collecting their CDs today seem to forget a bit too easily.

 

And when you listen to Morrison Hotel or L.A. Woman and other Doors records, something happens, too. you *hear* it, or you're not human.

 

And if that latest point of mine is provocative, let's say I *rock*.

[Lammycat]

"he was always an asshole and never talented"

 

Let's be fair, that's all I say. Jim Morrison was something, for rock music sake. As John Lennon or Iggy Pop or Mick Jagger are/were something on stage, too.

I can agree that Morrison had talent. Stage presence, for sure, and a decent voice. He just sucked as a lyricist and the whole Morrison-as-poet thing is off, imo. I'm from the camp that thinks The Doors are a very overrated band, though.

[Littlebear]

Let's take another example: Ryan Adams. Now that's nothing compared to Jim Morrison.

[Dick Ctionary]

she

[napoleon]

she

[mfwahl]

I just want to add my three cents to this drugs discussion.

 

To think that someone's talent is improved by doing heroin or most hard drugs is completely idiotic. I wish that anyone who thinks that doesn't have children.

 

But with LSD, you just gotta look at Doc Ellis' no hitter. I would like to believe that LSD doesn't help but the proof is in the Kool-Aid. Google this man's name if you don't know the story. Quick version from what I remember: He was a professional pitcher for the Padres in the early seventies. Dropped a bunch of acid with his wife because he didn't have to pitch that day. Wife opens paper, says he's supposed to pitch. One of the greatest performances ever. Said his pitches looked like slo-motion to him when he threw fire. And he loved the trails he saw off the ball.

 

Also, Jim Morrison is easily the most overrated artist ever. He's alright but definitely not a poet and pretty delusional himself. Cheers to him for living hard though.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

One of the greatest performances ever.

Considering he had 8 walks it'd be pretty hard to call that one of the greatest performances ever. Pick any other no hitter and you'll likely find a better performance. Doc Ellis' no hitter is overrated!

 

/nit-picking

 

P.S. The Doors make me itchy.

 

-The Non-Human

[Littlebear]

Everyone go to the end of that interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoVJ-55ZloE Jim Morrison was far to be an idiot. He was certainly stuck in drugs, but was a quite clever visionary.

 

In 69, he says that in five years, people will listen to electronics and music made by the machines. And that's what happened (with Kraftwerk and so on).

 

Regarding Jim's poetry: there are all sorts of poets, and poetries. Jim's goal wasn't to write cute poems with skilful rhymes. And if his ambitions were too high (and overrated by his fans - OF COURSE: which fan doesn't overrate anyway?), at least he had visions and ambition, and he tried to make something. That's all I feel in the Doors work: an attempt at making something special, lead by a vision, a real, sincere vision. I don't think Jim and the band ever were pretentious enough to say they succeeded. But they tried, and it's enough to make them interesting.