coast to coast Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The one time I got to see Elliott Smith live was opening for Wilco at the Riviera. He wasn't in the best shape, but I'm glad I got to see him. I've heard that concert. He was complaining about not being able to feel his fingers cos he slept on his arm on the plane. Its fairly fucking depressing to listen to. He can barely finish any songs and he sounds incredibly frustrated and disheartened. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m_to_the_c Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am glad that Jeff Tweedy didn't have to go through the monstrous rehab that Elliott did, which may have left him with the numbness in his arm. Basically, they implanted a catheter in his arm and put him on a saline drip. During this treatment he was so weak he could barely even grip a glass of water. Ugh. Interesting point of comparison that kind of sheds new light on Sky Blue Sky for the haters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
coast to coast Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am glad that Jeff Tweedy didn't have to go through the monstrous rehab that Elliott did, which may have left him with the numbness in his arm. Basically, they implanted a catheter in his arm and put him on a saline drip. During this treatment he was so weak he could barely even grip a glass of water. Ugh. Interesting point of comparison that kind of sheds new light on Sky Blue Sky for the haters. Are you talking about the Amino Acid Rehab thing he did that he mentions in the Under The Radar interview? I'm not sure but I think that that occured after the gig we are talking about... can't be sure of the timeline however... there seemed to be a few lost years in between Figure 8 and his re-emergence in late 2002. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickman Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I'm wishing some more concrete info on the lost album that Jon Brion was working on with Elliott would surface, but sadly I don't think it ever will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpolak21 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I'm wishing some more concrete info on the lost album that Jon Brion was working on with Elliott would surface, but sadly I don't think it ever will. I'm pretty sure that record became From A Basement On The Hill, which they were apparently about 30 songs recorded for. What I've heard is that Brion stopped working with Elliott on the album, because he was uncomfortable with Smith's drug abuse and wanted him to get cleaned up. --Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
What Light? Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I'm pretty sure that record became From A Basement On The Hill, which they were apparently about 30 songs recorded for. What I've heard is that Brion stopped working with Elliott on the album, because he was uncomfortable with Smith's drug abuse and wanted him to get cleaned up. --Mike read a few books on Elliott Smith..............an absolute genius..............but to think of him cleaning up would have been a shame..............unfortunately for him his music then would have suffered greatly.............so have a guy get cleaned up and put out a crappy record...........or be patient with his use of drugs and watch him produce another masterpiece...........duh! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yermom Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 read a few books on Elliott Smith..............an absolute genius..............but to think of him cleaning up would have been a shame..............unfortunately for him his music then would have suffered greatly.............so have a guy get cleaned up and put out a crappy record...........or be patient with his use of drugs and watch him produce another masterpiece...........duh!You serious? I don't read sarcasm well in text form. You aren't serious, right? Edit: Spelling...d'oh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
What Light? Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 You serious? I don't read sarcasm well in text form. You aren't serious, right? Edit: Spelling...d'oh. his music would not have been near the brilliance had he been sober and not on drugs and depressed............that is the truth..........I highly doubt he ever would have reached the success he did had he been sober...........however for his health and for those around him..............sure they wanted him to be sober.............but truely a sober elliott smith is one no one is talking about today......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GtrPlyr Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 his music would not have been near the brilliance had he been sober and not on drugs and depressed. To say someone is made brilliant due to drug or drink is quite erroneous, as often it has the opposite effect on creative powers. It's hard to be creative when you're out of your skull, or nodding off due to your last heroin fix. No, I'd venture to say that Elliott Smith was a good songwriter despite the drugs, not because of them. As for the depression, well that would definitely color the lyrics and would explain a leaning toward minor keys, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a good songwriter without said condition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
What Light? Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 To say someone is made brilliant due to drug or drink is quite erroneous, as often it has the opposite effect on creative powers. It's hard to be creative when you're out of your skull, or nodding off due to your last heroin fix. No, I'd venture to say that Elliott Smith was a good songwriter despite the drugs, not because of them. As for the depression, well that would definitely color the lyrics and would explain a leaning toward minor keys, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a good songwriter without said condition. that is the way I see it...........to me from all I have read and enjoying his music over the years..............he had to be in that state of mind to work...........which imo would not be the same had he not been on stuff over all those albums.............do you think the beatles would have come up with sgt pepper's lonely hearts club band and magical mystery tour for instance if they drank V8 Juice all the time and did not do anything(drugs) unhealthy...........see I do not buy your drug arguement not for a second...........too many masterpieces can be stated here to prove otherwise...........while under the influence of something that is.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAngerer09 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I think the answer to this question is always going to depend on the artist. Great music has been made by sober people.Great music has been made by people stoned out of their minds.Terrible music has been made by sober people.Terrible music has been made by people stoned out of their minds. I've also seen way too many ellipses in this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickman Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Not even going to get into that argument. I know Jon Brion stopped because of a ruined friendship over the drugs, but I was talking about more concrete stuff like which songs were part of those sessions. I know the noisier ones were done with the McConnell (or whatever his name is) so I'm thinking songs like True Love were part of it. Who knows really, I guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yermom Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 his music would not have been near the brilliance had he been sober and not on drugs and depressed............that is the truth..........I highly doubt he ever would have reached the success he did had he been sober...........however for his health and for those around him..............sure they wanted him to be sober.............but truely a sober elliott smith is one no one is talking about today.........Smith is one of the few tragic artists I managed to get into before they actually met their tragic end. I find it very sad that you believe his talent was only made possible through his drug use. I was heartbroken when he died and the reason why is that I've always felt many of his songs were really rather hopeful in a beautiful way. I used to work as a janitor at a movie theater where I would begin work around midnight and sometimes remain there until sunrise, alone in the auditoriums with Either/Or echoing in from my portable cd player plugged in down the hall. It is a pleasant thought to think that in death, Smith found some release from the demons that tortured him but I'd rather have him here today making music and giving interviews in which he describes how well he is feeling and how beautiful the world is through sober eyes. It's a shame that his music will often be overshadowed by stories of shows he did where his arm was numb and he couldn't finish songs etc... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GtrPlyr Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 do you think the beatles would have come up with sgt pepper's lonely hearts club band and magical mystery tour for instance if they drank V8 Juice all the time and did not do anything(drugs) unhealthyThe Beatles were known for mainly dabbling in pot and psychedelic drugs. Elliott was known for heroin use. Big difference in how those drugs affect creativity. And let's face it, Sgt. Pepper's wouldn't be nearly as great without the work of George Martin, who helped them shape the songs into sonic masterpieces. Without the help of him--the non-stoned guy in the room--they'd probably still be trying to tune the sitar, and we'd be betting on whether Sgt. Pepper's was going to be released before, or after Chinese Democracy. Have great works of art been created under the influence? Most definitely. How much of the creative output can be contributed to the drugs vs. the artist? Too hard to say. I think a lot of people romanticize the whole drug taking artist, and some seem to think it's the drugs that made them special. Like somehow they were empty vessels until the drugs took hold. I don't buy it. Look at someone like Miles Davis. The man had periods of drug abuse, but also periods of sobriety. He created amazing music from both sides. Are you going to tell me that he needed the drugs to be the artist he was? I think not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kidsmoke Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I, too, am an enormous Elliott Smith fan. I also wonder whether Jeff is as well, or the other band members. Elliott moves me as few musicians do. llynnowens, I feel just as you do. It's all very, very sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpolak21 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I must say I find the whole "one must take drugs to create good art" arguement to be complete and utter bullshit. In fact, I think it's probably just something drug dealers just started saying so they could make more money. The truth is if you are blessed enough creatively with enough talent and imagination you can create art, drugs or no drugs. Now drugs have certainly served as a catalyst for some great art over the years, and they were very much in the picture for Elliott in his later stages, however he wasn't on heroin when he recorded Either/Or, which is probably his best work. They've also destroyed a lot of lives as well. Where would Brian Wilson be today, if he had exercised a little restraint. Also, the Beatles example. Lennon was pretty fucked up when he made Two Virgins as well and McCartney was blitzkrieged out of his mind when he wrote C Moon and that didn't exactly set the artistic world on fire either. If Elliott hadn't fucked around with heroin, he may still be alive today, and he'd still be making great music like he always did, whether he was drinking V8 or mainlining heroin. I'd sure as hell take that over some nonesensical concept that him being high would get us a better record out of the deal. --Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artifice Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Smith is one of the few tragic artists I managed to get into before they actually met their tragic end. I find it very sad that you believe his talent was only made possible through his drug use. I was heartbroken when he died and the reason why is that I've always felt many of his songs were really rather hopeful in a beautiful way. I used to work as a janitor at a movie theater where I would begin work around midnight and sometimes remain there until sunrise, alone in the auditoriums with Either/Or echoing in from my portable cd player plugged in down the hall. It is a pleasant thought to think that in death, Smith found some release from the demons that tortured him but I'd rather have him here today making music and giving interviews in which he describes how well he is feeling and how beautiful the world is through sober eyes. It's a shame that his music will often be overshadowed by stories of shows he did where his arm was numb and he couldn't finish songs etc... Well said. Another ES fan here. I got into him circa '96. Tried to see him in 2000 but missed the show (long story). Thought I'd have another chance. I used to post sparingly on Sweet Addy but gave it up about 6 mos after he died. It got really petty on there. Charlie seemed like a great guy though. I have the photo of Buckley & Smith at the same show, but no mentions or photos of Tweedy and Smith crossing paths. It's weird who these guys like/respect though. Elliott reportedly showed up for a Radiohead show, but left after Supergrass opened cause that's who he came to see. Think he remarked later that Radiohead was boring. (I like both bands). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
remphish1 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well said. Another ES fan here. I got into him circa '96. Tried to see him in 2000 but missed the show (long story). Thought I'd have another chance. I used to post sparingly on Sweet Addy but gave it up about 6 mos after he died. It got really petty on there. Charlie seemed like a great guy though. I have the photo of Buckley & Smith at the same show, but no mentions or photos of Tweedy and Smith crossing paths. It's weird who these guys like/respect though. Elliott reportedly showed up for a Radiohead show, but left after Supergrass opened cause that's who he came to see. Think he remarked later that Radiohead was boring. (I like both bands). I can attest to the fact that Elliott was bored by Radiohead as I met him at a radiohead concert. Well not really...I saw Elliott at the Field Day Concert in NJ in 03...after he was done and later in the night I spotted him with a group of people hanging out watching Radioheads set. Within a few minutes he was passed out or sleeping??? He did wake up towards the encore as I was on my way out. I said a few words to Elliott about liking the new songs...who knew that was the last time I will ever see him PS I was fortunate though as I got to see him 5 times in concert....I also met him one other time and got a signed cd and a pic with him....what a talent he was... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rooney Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Elliott produced a few tracks on the first Birddog EP, Trackhouse. Glenn Kotche played drums, as did Elliott on a number of the tracks. There Quote Link to post Share on other sites
What Light? Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Smith is one of the few tragic artists I managed to get into before they actually met their tragic end. I find it very sad that you believe his talent was only made possible through his drug use. I was heartbroken when he died and the reason why is that I've always felt many of his songs were really rather hopeful in a beautiful way. I used to work as a janitor at a movie theater where I would begin work around midnight and sometimes remain there until sunrise, alone in the auditoriums with Either/Or echoing in from my portable cd player plugged in down the hall. It is a pleasant thought to think that in death, Smith found some release from the demons that tortured him but I'd rather have him here today making music and giving interviews in which he describes how well he is feeling and how beautiful the world is through sober eyes. It's a shame that his music will often be overshadowed by stories of shows he did where his arm was numb and he couldn't finish songs etc... he was an artist regardless no doubt...........but you and I will be different on the fact of how good his music and career would have been sober.........that is the way I see it and always will..............I too was very heartbroken by his death..........and was a fan of his long before he died..........I do not hold anything against him for being the way he was..............but like Janis Joplin...........Jim Morrison............Jimi Hendrix.............Kurt Cobain..........they were not meant to be around making new music for many many years.........there time here with us as fans was to be short and brilliant.............in the end their music lives on forever..........but as tortured souls(drugs/alcohol/dpression etc.) is how they found their inspiration to be great as artists imo......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
What Light? Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 And let's face it, Sgt. Pepper's wouldn't be nearly as great without the work of George Martin, who helped them shape the songs into sonic masterpieces. drugs alter mind sets no matter what it is................Paul McCartney was actually the brainchild behind that album.........seeing it was mostly his idea and all.......Martin was brilliant.........but the lyrical representations were the drugged up Beatles....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artifice Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 what's with the damn ellipses? Do you have that many unfinished thoughts? Drugs are not the cause of a tortured soul or great music. They're just an unhealthy escapist vehicle those types turn to when the music isn't enough. You're totalling borking the causal relationship with an unsupported correlation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I think drugs color the art, but don't cause it. I mean, Sgt Pepper wouldn't be Sgt Pepper without the drugs. Obviously. But if there hadn't been drugs in those sessions, there would have just been a different album. And I am certain I would have loved it as much if not more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 what's with the damn ellipses? Do you have that many unfinished thoughts? .. - / .. ... / .- / ... - -.-- .-.. .. ... - .. -.-. / -.-. .... --- .. -.-. . .-.-.- Translator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chendizzle Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 his music would not have been near the brilliance had he been sober and not on drugs and depressed............that is the truth..........I highly doubt he ever would have reached the success he did had he been sober...........however for his health and for those around him..............sure they wanted him to be sober.............but truely a sober elliott smith is one no one is talking about today......... You are a fucking idiot. I hope you start taking heroin and coke every day so that you produce higher quality posts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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