Why was it so important

[Sir Stewart]

[cwnorman]

Is that Gene Simmons riding a Unicorn?

 

HA! I'm with Pig Sooie and where this came from?

 

I was going to post the lyrics to Randy Newman's Rednecks; but I've seen even well educated people miss the point of that song.

[embiggen]

I was going to post the lyrics to Randy Newman's Rednecks; but I've seen even well educated people miss the point of that song.

 

how dare you.

[EL the Famous]

i'll go on record right here and now and say i'll uproot my family and move tomorrow to any place featuring a large statue of Gene Simmons riding a Unicorn visible from a major expressway and/or in front of a government building.

[brianjeremy]

 

Q: Why was it so important to bring back the south?

A: "How much time ya got, buddy? Where would I start? Well, ...."

[napoleon]

 

Q: Why was it so important to bring back the south?

A: "How much time ya got, buddy? Where would I start? Well, ...."

 

that still is my favorite chapelle skit of all time. and i'll never forget how i fell out of my chair laughing at the very end when he told why he divorced his wife. i don't think i've ever laughed that hard.

[bjorn_skurj]

that still is my favorite chapelle skit of all time. and i'll never forget how i fell out of my chair laughing at the very end when he told why he divorced his wife. i don't think i've ever laughed that hard.

Seconded. I lost it when they showed the picture of Mr. Ed in the KKK.

[Analogman]

There is, however, no better place than Appalachia and The South.

[bobbob1313]

Sure, but we coulda kept doing that stuff without those guys.

 

So Northerner's are as close minded as southerners, but in a different way? Sweet?

 

that still is my favorite chapelle skit of all time. and i'll never forget how i fell out of my chair laughing at the very end when he told why he divorced his wife. i don't think i've ever laughed that hard.

 

So good. May be one of the funniest 10 minutes in television history.

[bjorn_skurj]

There is, however, no better place than Appalachia and The South.

Except for the Catskills and The North.

 

[tugmoose]

I can't believe that EVERYBODY missed the gaping hole it my argument: MUSIC!!!!! Where would American music be today without the south? Jazz, blues, boogie, folk, gospel, ELVIS. Christ, the whole thread is built on 19th century lyrics that would be at home on the next Drive-By Truckers' album. Shit, I might even suggest it to Patterson.

[PigSooie]

The music thing is dead on, but I fail to see how music is the reason you started this thread. I could be wrong, but this thread seemed ...(he's in another thread!) weird.

[tugmoose]

The music thing is dead on, but I fail to see how music is the reason you started this thread. I could be wrong, but this thread seemed ...(he's in another thread!) weird.

I think I started the thread because I'd just heard of the opening song, thought the lyrics kicked Yankee ass and wanted to share it. The rest was musing on my part, would the Federals have been better off letting the South go its own way, rather than fighting the deadliest war (still) in US history. Consider it a late-night college bull session.

[thermocaster]

I think I started the thread because I'd just heard of the opening song, thought the lyrics kicked Yankee ass and wanted to share it. The rest was musing on my part, would the Federals have been better off letting the South go its own way, rather than fighting the deadliest war (still) in US history. Consider it a late-night college bull session.

 

Well, in that case, the answer's pretty easy. It was important to bring the South back because the United States government would've had zero power as a federal institution if it just allowed states who disagreed with federal policy (or, in this case, IMPLIED federal policy) to leave whenever they wanted. One can always question whether the costs, be they in people or material, were worth the conflict, but ultimately, the Union would not have been preserved, and very easily could've seen its component parts start to shear off and form their own separate republics. Heck, there are people in Vermont who are trying to do this very thing right now.

 

Unfortunately, by forcing the issue, both sides ensured that a future US government would have far more federal power than the founding fathers had ever intended. From this standpoint, I think Lincoln gets far too much of a free pass than he should. He knew that his election would guarantee Southern secession. That said, the southern way of life was untenable for an advanced society. Even with that, there are large swaths of the south that still refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression". Having lived in southwest Virginia, North Carolina, and northern Mississippi, I ran into those types all the time.

 

Regarding the music...in the unlikely event of the North allowing the South to go its own way, I imagine that the steady flow of black refugees to the North would've brought the precursor forms of jazz & the blues with them. Plus, with both West Virginia and Kentucky still in the Union, bluegrass and appalachian music would've been at least somewhat in the picture.

[tugmoose]

Well, in that case, the answer's pretty easy. It was important to bring the South back because the United States government would've had zero power as a federal institution if it just allowed states who disagreed with federal policy (or, in this case, IMPLIED federal policy) to leave whenever they wanted. One can always question whether the costs, be they in people or material, were worth the conflict, but ultimately, the Union would not have been preserved, and very easily could've seen its component parts start to shear off and form their own separate republics. Heck, there are people in Vermont who are trying to do this very thing right now.

 

Unfortunately, by forcing the issue, both sides ensured that a future US government would have far more federal power than the founding fathers had ever intended. From this standpoint, I think Lincoln gets far too much of a free pass than he should. He knew that his election would guarantee Southern secession. That said, the southern way of life was untenable for an advanced society. Even with that, there are large swaths of the south that still refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression". Having lived in southwest Virginia, North Carolina, and northern Mississippi, I ran into those types all the time.

 

Regarding the music...in the unlikely event of the North allowing the South to go its own way, I imagine that the steady flow of black refugees to the North would've brought the precursor forms of jazz & the blues with them. Plus, with both West Virginia and Kentucky still in the Union, bluegrass and appalachian music would've been at least somewhat in the picture.

Good stuff. Still, it would have been a big, hockin' issue that would cause a state in the more prosperous, economically diverse north to take such a drastic, damaging step.

[caliber66]

I can't believe that EVERYBODY missed the gaping hole it my argument: MUSIC!!!!! Where would American music be today without the south? Jazz, blues, boogie, folk, gospel, ELVIS. Christ, the whole thread is built on 19th century lyrics that would be at home on the next Drive-By Truckers' album. Shit, I might even suggest it to Patterson.

This seems to imply that Southern music wouldn't have evolved if Memphis and the rest of the South had been part of another country. It just wouldn't be American music - but neither were the Beatles, or the Stones, or Zeppelin, or, um, Men at Work.

[quarter23cd]

Regarding the music...in the unlikely event of the North allowing the South to go its own way, I imagine that the steady flow of black refugees to the North would've brought the precursor forms of jazz & the blues with them.

Not that music is necessarily bound to a particular geographical location, but it is difficult to imagine the jazz music that emerged from cutlural stew of New Orleans happening anywhere else.

 

(this is the part where LouieB steps in and reminds me that Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives and Seves recordings were mostly done in Chicago)

[bjorn_skurj]

I think the cultural impact would have been minimal. The north and the south were economically intertwined and would have remained so even if the north had given up and let the south be its own country.

[dannygutters]

The real damn shame is that Dixie is such a good song and it's so unplayable without being tarred a southern racist.

[bjorn_skurj]

The real damn shame is that Dixie is such a good song and it's so unplayable without being tarred a southern racist.

Just tell people the truth - it was written in New York City.

[dannygutters]

Just tell people the truth - it was written in New York City.

 

Yeah but it was in a minstrel show.. oops.

[bjorn_skurj]

Yeah but it was in a minstrel show.. oops.

You can just say you're a popular music historian.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

One good thing about growing up in a New England school system: we learned that not only did we kick the Confederacy's ass, but we were in the right.

We're number one! We're number one!

[bjorn_skurj]

One good thing about growing up in a New England school system: we learned that not only did we kick the Confederacy's ass, but we were in the right.

We're number one! We're number one!

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want."

 

"My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom."

[Chendizzle]

I can't ever see myself living below the Mason-Dixon line