MLB 2007

[rareair]

He did have Tommy John surgery in July, 2003. Frankly, I don't know if HGH is often prescribed to help with recovery from surgery. It is prescribed to prevent muscle loss in some situations, which seems applicable to me...

 

a year's worth seems to undermine the credibility of the tommy john angle to me, but i have no idea how long hgh is prescribed in any medical situation.

[caliber66]

How long does Tommy John rehab take?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

According to the FDA' date=' prescriptions of HGH are limited to adults with serious hormone deficiencies caused by pituitary tumors and conditions such as AIDS "wasting" disease. Doctors have latitude with how they prescribe some drugs, but not with HGH, said Gary Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at NYU and a committee member with the World Anti-Doping Agency.[/quote']

Gogan, who did not return calls to his North Palm Beach office, has a checkered medical history.

 

In 1997 Gogan was identified as one of 104 Florida physicians who had paid three or more medical malpractice claims over the previous five years. The $2.7 million he paid for his three claims was the most paid by any Palm Beach County physician during that period, according to state records. Gogan was also placed on probation by the Florida Board of Medicine in 1996 and ordered to pay a $3,000 fine after investigators determined he made four mistakes while replacing the knee of a 73-year-old patient.

[MrRain422]

There is a difference in two people equally cheating when one's cheating has a far greater impact on the game.

 

But why is the one making a greater impact? Because he is already an awesome player. Again, the crux of the argument seems to be that Bonds committed a worse misdeed because he is a better player.

[bjorn_skurj]

Bonds was incredibly gifted, but, like Anakin Skywalker, it wasn't enough for him.

[bobbob1313]

Bonds was incredibly gifted, but, like Anakin Skywalker, it wasn't enough for him.

 

Anakin was consumed by rage, anger, suffering, and the dark side. He was tempted by the promise of safety for the love of his life.

 

Barry Bonds felt he needed to keep up with guys like Sosa and McGwire. He had a better season in 1998 (arguably) than either (Sosa, for sure, and McGwire possibly, as Bonds was still an elite defensive player then. Though it probably wasn't enough to make up for the 20% gap in OPS), and nobody noticed.

 

So they are sort of the same thing.

[bjorn_skurj]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[bobbob1313]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

 

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you.

[Lammycat]

But why is the one making a greater impact? Because he is already an awesome player. Again, the crux of the argument seems to be that Bonds committed a worse misdeed because he is a better player.

The cheating aspect is equal. I don't think anyone is arguing it isn't. No one is saying Bonds commited a greater (worse)misdeed. Because he is a better player, and because of the cheating, and because he broke the record, he's held to greater scrutiny. He's criticized because he's made a greater impact on the sport. Many feel his impact in a negative way because of things he chose to do.

 

Bonds was an awesome player pre-cheating (as well as the cheating years, too). This doesn't alter the fact that he made choicesto cheat (be it based on the fact he wanted to "keep up" with others who were doing it, whatever) that now alter the public's perseption of him.

 

I've always had trouble understanding why people are quick to excuse folks like Bonds and Rose who knowingly bent the rules to appease themselves as if they're above the standards of everyone else. They get caught, lie about it, and try to turn the blame on everyone else, yet people still pat them on the back and chalk it up to "well, a lot of players were doing it" or "Pete didn't bet on his team" (we now know he did after years of lying about that, too) or "it's only gambling, everybody does it."

[caliber66]

I think Bonds committed a greater misdeed, because he knowingly used a banned substance while it was banned by baseball. Ankiel knowingly used a currently banned substance before it was banned by baseball.

[Sir Stewart]

I think Bonds committed a greater misdeed, because he knowingly used a banned substance while it was banned by baseball. Ankiel knowingly used a currently banned substance before it was banned by baseball.

You spelled Anakin wrong.

[Lammycat]

I think Bonds committed a greater misdeed, because he knowingly used a banned substance while it was banned by baseball. Ankiel knowingly used a currently banned substance before it was banned by baseball.

I wasn't aware that Ankiel used it while no ban was on. There's a big difference there.

 

I agree.

[Lammycat]

I suggested a place to talk about steroids because it apparently annoys some folks, but I'm curious why this thread is "ruined" now.

[cryptique]

Ruined for me. Y'all go on ahead.

[Sir Stewart]

I suggested a place to talk about steroids because it apparently annoys some folks, but I'm curious why this thread is "ruined" now.

I just don't care about the steroids/HGH thing enough not to be disappointed when I open this thread for a new post and the subject matter is not the play on the field.

[MrRain422]

I don't think anyone's posts about games have been ignored or anything.

[MattZ]

I don't think anyone's posts about games have been ignored or anything.

 

See? Mr. Rain and I agree on some things.

I think the steroids folks deserve some slack -- with the news of Ankiel/Glaus last week it was particularly relevant again.

I think we are all ready to get back to the play on the field though...

[cryptique]

I don't think anyone's posts about games have been ignored or anything.

Since page one of this thread, there have only been about 12 posts (out of ~70) that weren't about steroids in some way. The last non-steroid-related post was on page 3.

 

You can do what you want in this thread, but it had become clear (to me, anyway) that if anyone actually wanted to talk about baseball, a new thread was needed.

[bobbob1313]

I think what we are missing is the news of Jay Gibbons being tied to HGH. I'm devastated.

[c53x12]

Since page one of this thread, there have only been about 12 posts (out of ~70) that weren't about steroids in some way. The last non-steroid-related post was on page 3.

 

You can do what you want in this thread, but it had become clear (to me, anyway) that if anyone actually wanted to talk about baseball, a new thread was needed.

Turn on the TV or open any newspaper -- you'll find about the same proportion of stories about steroids. Sports and steroids are inextricably linked.

[caliber66]

Turn on the TV or open any newspaper -- you'll find about the same proportion of stories about steroids. Sports and steroids are inextricably linked.

Sorry, but I don't buy that five out of every six baseball stories are about steroids.

[Sir Stewart]

Sorry, but I don't buy that five out of every six baseball stories are about steroids.

You're totally discounting clutch writing.