ZenLunatic Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I can't buy in if I don't have any money to buy with. That's how I look at it. I don't think of my 401K as a way to play the market, I think of it as my future happiness. Although I completely understand what you're saying, the prudent side of me just wants to have something there to gamble with if I want to. Right now I'm just watching the money come out of my paycheck and dissipate into thin air. What I lost since January 1 took me close to a year to put in. Maybe if I wait it out I'll see that money come back but maybe I won't. I'm not willing to just throw my money away. Right now my 401K is essentially a savings account which is A-OK with me. Savings acct with 2% interest is pretty darn safe as it gets. If it eases your mind, then its worth it. No point in stressing over a 401k investment. I understand how losing money in the market can be. I lost alot and now feel mutual funds where I feel comfortable. The thing about you selling is that you just took all that loss. Its not a loss until you sell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The thing about you selling is that you just took all that loss. Its not a loss until you sell. I see your point. I'll get back in when I think we're near the end of the slump. I just think it's going to get much worse before it gets better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I guess I just don't understand the logic. I start with X amount of money to invest in the market, which then loses 10% in 3 weeks, which means I now have only 90% of X to invest, and the money I contribute each pay period is less than what is being lost, so every week I have less money than I had the week before. How does this help me when the markets start to make a profit? If I move the money now into areas that are gaining 2% out of areas that are losing 15-20%, when I move it back into the stock market later I'll have more money to give back. I realize that the market has ups and downs, but a recession is a whole different ball game. If my parents had been more prudent during the crash in the 80s I wouldn't have had to rely on scholarships and financial aid to get me into college. But they "stuck it out" and lost a good deal of my college fund before the markets turned around. you buy low, sell high. you've sold low and will buy when it's high again. over-simplifying it, but that is kind of what it boils down to. as stated, it's only a true loss if you actually get rid of it as such. the point is, we have and will continue to experience various bouts w/ recession...if you aren't retiring for another XX years, you really have to ask yourself if tweaking your investments now will really affect you in the long-term. however, if that is what makes you feel safe, than don't worry about what anybody else is telling you. none of us have a crystal ball and you have play things the best you can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I guess I just don't understand the logic. I start with X amount of money to invest in the market, which then loses 10% in 3 weeks, which means I now have only 90% of X to invest, and the money I contribute each pay period is less than what is being lost, so every week I have less money than I had the week before. How does this help me when the markets start to make a profit? If I move the money now into areas that are gaining 2% out of areas that are losing 15-20%, when I move it back into the stock market later I'll have more money to give back. I realize that the market has ups and downs, but a recession is a whole different ball game. If my parents had been more prudent during the crash in the 80s I wouldn't have had to rely on scholarships and financial aid to get me into college. But they "stuck it out" and lost a good deal of my college fund before the markets turned around. I'll be moving back into higher risk stocks when we have seemed to hit bottom and started the slow climb back up, but for now I'll be happy to know what I've given up as spendable income to put into the 401K is not just evaporating. I'd rather stop contributing altogether and use the money now while it's in my hand. Your thinking is short term when you are in a long term investment. Everything that went down will come back up higher than before so you lose nothing and gain everything you bought in at a lower price in the long run. You have to believe this is just a temporary set back. Finding the bottom is not easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I guess I just don't understand the logic. I start with X amount of money to invest in the market, which then loses 10% in 3 weeks, which means I now have only 90% of X to invest, and the money I contribute each pay period is less than what is being lost, so every week I have less money than I had the week before. How does this help me when the markets start to make a profit? If I move the money now into areas that are gaining 2% out of areas that are losing 15-20%, when I move it back into the stock market later I'll have more money to give back.You're not losing the money you contribute each pay period -- you're buying more shares with it. Don't think of it in terms of your total dollars -- think of it in terms of your number of shares. When the price goes down, your contributions enable you to "buy low," which is what every investor wants to do. Sure, it looks like you're losing money, but when the market cycles back around to higher prices, the additional shares you bought when the price was low will provide that much more yield. The key is not to panic in down times -- you're overthinking things. Like ZenLunatic said, it's only a loss when you actually sell at a low price. I feel like I should put a disclaimer on anything I post in this thread that says "you didn't hear this from me." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I get what you all are saying, really I do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I get what you all are saying, really I do. The good part is you did sell and you wont lose anymore from this down sliding market. And my prediction is that it will continue to go down, so great chance to buy in at lower, but I have been wrong before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I get what you all are saying, really I do. Yeah, sorry, we don't mean to beat you over the head with it. We're on your side. You'll be OK -- especially because, as has been mentioned, we haven't hit bottom yet. Just pay attention to what's going on, and if you decide that the bottom's been reached, think about buying back into your diversified funds. Obviously you'd be better off buying back in before those funds rise back to the prices at which you sold them. It is a risky game, of course. You're just trying to be prudent, and I can certainly understand that. If the economy continues to tank, the markets could keep plunging and things will get ugly -- who knows how long it'll take for stock prices to reach their previous levels, and then to exceed them. Those of us who've been advocating the "don't sell" strategy are counting on the market to recover -- eventually -- and exceed its previous high-water mark. That's a gamble in itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 You'll be OK -- especially because, as has been mentioned, we haven't hit bottom yet. Just pay attention to what's going on, and if you decide that the bottom's been reached, think about buying back into your diversified funds. Obviously you'd be better off buying back in before those funds rise back to the prices at which you sold them. Exactly my reasoning. Yous peeples done talk more good than I's does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I would be a lot less concerned if the United States weren't 9 trillion in debt. A trillion here, a trillion there; soon you're talking real money. We can keep talking about the national debt. It doesn't mean anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 We can keep talking about the national debt. It doesn't mean anything.And why is that? We pay 13% of the federal budget now just to service our existing debt. You don't think that hamstrings the country at all? That's not much smaller than social security payments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Because we are never going to not be in debt. It is a reality of the situation. I don't personally think it is a bad thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Because we are never going to not be in debt. It is a reality of the situation. I don't personally think it is a bad thing.It will be when the Chinese repossess the entire country and make us work like we made them work on the railroads way back when. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might very well be), but didn't Bush inherit a surplus? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might very well be), but didn't Bush inherit a surplus?That was a budget surplus, which doesn't have much to do with the national debt. But I don't really know about this stuff, so I could be wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a.miller Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I was once told, by my college economics professor, that the majority of the national debt is money owed by one branch of the government to another. I don't know if that's entirely true, but it made me feel better...Now, the fact that China is purchasing our debt is scary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyMike Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 This doesn't really affect me, since I have always been pretty f'n poor, but I find it hilarious that everyone is just getting around to talking about how bad the economy is. Seems to me, from talking to friends and family all over the country in the last year, that things have been bad for a while and now its just turning for the worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I haven't read through this thread; I'm sure the fear-mongering is rampant. Let it be clear that other, non-financial segments of the US economy are doing just fine, and forecasts look good through 2008. This shit goes in cycles. It always has. I'm not claiming everything's peachy keen, but the economy is more than the DOW and lending issues. things have been badway to generalize Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Let it be clear that other, non-financial segments of the US economy are doing just fine, and forecasts look good through 2008.Yeah, those gas prices aren't affecting anyone... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Yeah, those gas prices aren't affecting anyone... I said "other non-financial segments" not "all non-financial segments". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 This doesn't really affect me, since I have always been pretty f'n poor, but I find it hilarious that everyone is just getting around to talking about how bad the economy is. Truth. "Boo-hoo, my savings are vanishing!" Fuck, if you've GOT savings, shut up. Seriously. You'll be able to retire, whiz kid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Truth. "Boo-hoo, my savings are vanishing!" Fuck, if you've GOT savings, shut up. Seriously. You'll be able to retire, whiz kid.Right. As if it's their fault for planning for the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Truth. "Boo-hoo, my savings are vanishing!" Fuck, if you've GOT savings, shut up. Seriously. You'll be able to retire, whiz kid.Wow. And here I thought I was just being fiscally responsible. Turns out I'm some kind of asshole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorik Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ...Now, the fact that China is purchasing our debt is scary. If we default, how are the Chinese going to collect? What security instrument is attached to these debts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Wow. And here I thought I was just being fiscally responsible. Turns out I'm some kind of asshole. 'Fuck, if you've GOT savings, shut up, whiz kid.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.