TheMaker Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 To each his own. I really like P.T. Anderson, honestly, but he's just so... pleased with himself, y'know? There's a very arch self-awareness to his films that prevents me from loving them without reservation. Maybe it's just me. With the Coens, I get the feeling that they really don't understand just how brilliant their talent is, which is probably what keeps them grounded enough to continue making films like Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink, The Man Who Wasn't There, et al. after more than 20 years in the industry. For the record, I think Juno is going to win. That'll be a real travesty, if it happens. (I'm most definitely not on side with Ebert when it comes to this snotty little flick.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elixir Sue Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 The Diving Bell And The Butterfly on Sunday woo hoo!I loved that one. I really liked No Country For Old Men; I have yet to see There Will Be Blood. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Gotta think metaphorically. I wrote this elsewhere: It was a very good year for American movies, and no movie was more American in its vision than P. T. Anderson's swaggering horror show about oil, religion, and madness in the early-20th-century West. At its center is Daniel Plainview, a tall, gangly, beady-eyed prospector who emerges from a dark fissure in the earth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 a performance of imperious physicality This is a fantastic description, Beltmann! It's almost as if there's a nobility to Plainview's madness, when in reality, well, not so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Daniel Day-Lewis will win best actor, but I think film honors is going to NCFOM. Maybe they'll give best director to Anderson? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 To each his own. I really like P.T. Anderson, honestly, but he's just so... pleased with himself, y'know?I do know what you mean, but I guess I'm okay with Anderson's archness for the same reasons I'm okay with Orson Welles' archness--they have the chops and artistic insight to pull it off. In their hands, it seems justifiable. Maybe I'm confessing a bias; I like when directors swing for the fences. Oddly, I've always considered the Coens to be in that category, too. To my eyes, many of their films are among the most self-aware movies I've ever seen (and I don't intend that as criticism). For the record, I think Juno is going to win. That'll be a real travesty, if it happens. (I'm most definitely not on side with Ebert when it comes to this snotty little flick.)I liked Juno, but yeah. Its achievements are relatively mild. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I'm okay with Anderson's archness for the same reasons I'm okay with Orson Welles' archness--they have the chops and artistic insight to pull it off.WE KNOW A CERTAIN FJORD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Gotta think metaphorically. I wrote this elsewhere: It was a very good year for American movies, and no movie was more American in its vision than P. T. Anderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I got all of this, but it seemed as though the film would have been just fine leaving out the third section, which seemed to be tacked on so that PT could be sure his audience would get the metaphor. These themes are pretty evident throughout the entire film and I thought it was completely unnecessary for a film of this magnitude, with a likely intelligent audience, to beat us over the head (pardon the PUN) in order to explain itself.I have a theory that the last twenty-thirty minutes are actually documents of DDL post-production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zebra Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I know! I love me some of those brothers. Is it on DVD yet?This movie [NCFOM] needs to been seen in a theater. While I loved both movies, I give my nod to NCFOM as the overall best film. While TWBB had better acting, I think that NCFOM was an overall better movie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Gotta think metaphorically. I wrote this elsewhere: It was a very good year for American movies, and no movie was more American in its vision than P. T. Anderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Been meaning to see NCFOM, but TWBB was fan-fucking-tastic, and that gets my vote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakobnicholas Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It was a very good year for American movies, and no movie was more American in its vision than P. T. Anderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socbret Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I am a huge Coen Bros. and PT Anderson fan, and my favorite movie of the year was Atonement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I actually felt a little sympathy towards Plainview. What's the chances he was impotent? There was one scene where he was at a party with his 'brother', and seemed not the least bit interested in being with the opposite sex. There's also the part of the movie where Plainview thinks he has a brother...you can sense his excitement of having his own blood around. When he finds out otherwise, it's crushing to him. There was the scene where his 'son' comes back from being at school, and he gives him a big hug and seems genuinely happy to see him back. It's likely he never had a child because he was unable. I think he wanted a child from his blood, and it gnawed at him that he couldn't.I too felt sympathy for Plainview--he becomes a monster, but he almost seems helpless to prevent it; he doesn't have the emotional tools to capably resist the the strains of darkness within him. I believe he sincerely loves that boy, and is just confounded about how to communicate with him, and, especially, how to deal with his disability. This is partially what makes the later scene--to avoid spoilers, I'll just call it the scene where son becomes competitor--so tragic and heartbreaking. Plainview cannot stop himself from allowing his competitive streak from destroying the only true family he has. I agree that he's turned on by the possibility of family, and the scenes with his brother help underscore how the movie is really a chart of his male relationships. He might be impotent, or even gay--but I read him as asexual. The great love of his life is oil (and victory). It might be a subjective reading, but I can't help but see the movie as an allegory with contemporary echoes--for me, it's a cautionary tale about the power and influence--and possible danger--of today's corporate climate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Oddly, I've always considered the Coens to be in that category, too. To my eyes, many of their films are among the most self-aware movies I've ever seen (and I don't intend that as criticism). I hate to get even more nitpicky about my tastes, but I think it comes down to the kind of self-awareness that each director's films tend to embody to me. Anderson's movies almost seem polemical, his characters often archetypes to be made an example of, which results in a somewhat cynical viewing experience. The Coens, on the other hand, simply seem driven, and thoroughly delighted, by whatever story they've decided to put to film, and their tics are most apparent in a given script's wonderful vernacular ("He's givin' me the high hat!", "I'll tell you what I am - I'm the damned pater familias!"), the often complex plot mechanics, and so on. Even in the case of their darker pictures, the joy they have for making films is still almost palpable. I'm a sucker for that kind of charm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I hate to get even more nitpicky about my tastes, but I think it comes down to the kind of self-awareness that each director's films tend to embody to me. Anderson's movies almost seem polemical, his characters often archetypes to be made an example of, which results in a somewhat cynical viewing experience. The Coens, on the other hand, simply seem driven, and thoroughly delighted, by whatever story they've decided to put to film, and their tics are most apparent in a given script's wonderful vernacular ("He's givin' me the high hat!", "I'll tell you what I am - I'm the damned pater familias!"), the often complex plot mechanics, and so on. Even in the case of their darker pictures, the joy they have for making films is still almost palpable. I'm a sucker for that kind of charm.Hey, sometimes it's fun to explore our own personal preferences. Again, I totally understand where you're coming from, but I'm still struck by how what you're describing better applies (for me) to the Coens, especially in terms of cynicism and even, sometimes, condescenscion or misanthropy. (There are a handful of movies by the Coens that rub me the wrong way for that very reason, even as I admire the craft.) I might be in the minority, but I see in Anderson a joy of making movies coupled with a forgiving, egalitarian spirit; to my eyes, Anderson seems more saddened than cynical about the life of Daniel Plainview. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
embiggen Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 up until today, I had only seen No Country for Old Men. I saw There Will Be Blood today. I'm not much for debating, and I'm not a huge film buff. Daniel Day Lewis's performance was absolutely amazing. So was Paul Dano's. I was locked in to the story through the entire film, just as I was with NCFOM. I can see where people would dislike the end; I didn't like it myself, but it was powerful and disturbing. I can agree with Beltmann's point of stating that Anderson was saddened by Daniel Plainview's character. he just ended up, and always was, a low down dirty dog. NCFOM had an abrupt end and many people didn't like that either. speaking plainly, I have to say my favorite out of the two is NCFOM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 We just saw There Will be Blood tonight - I thought it was film making wankery. The score was overbearing, redundant and irritating. I am sure that was part of the point of it, but it completely turned me off. Daniel Day Lewis just seems like a cartoon character......another grinning, growling Butcher. I so so so wanted to like this movie. I wanted to appreciate the cinematography and the grand scale of it. I wanted to be sucked into it and walk out of there in awe. However, I will continue to think about the film, well after its over - so, in some way it did what it set out to do. Too bad I didn't enjoy it.....at all. Now, I can easily stand behind my vote for No Country For Old Men, which is one of the best films I have ever seen. Period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
embiggen Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 We just saw There Will be Blood tonight - I thought it was film making wankery. The score was overbearing, redundant and irritating. I am sure that was part of the point of it, but it completely turned me off. Daniel Day Lewis just seems like a cartoon character......another grinning, growling Butcher. I so so so wanted to like this movie. I wanted to appreciate the cinematography and the grand scale of it. I wanted to be sucked into it and walk out of there in awe. However, I will continue to think about the film, well after its over - so, in some way it did what it set out to do. Too bad I didn't enjoy it.....at all. Now, I can easily stand behind my vote for No Country For Old Men, which is one of the best films I have ever seen. Period. I've thought about Lewis's character a great deal since yesterday. I did get sucked into the story and his downward spiral into madness. I would go into it further, but I don't want to spoil the movie for anyone that hasn't seen it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 We just saw There Will be Blood tonight - I thought it was film making wankery. The score was overbearing, redundant and irritating. I am sure that was part of the point of it, but it completely turned me off. Daniel Day Lewis just seems like a cartoon character......another grinning, growling Butcher. I so so so wanted to like this movie. I wanted to appreciate the cinematography and the grand scale of it. I wanted to be sucked into it and walk out of there in awe. However, I will continue to think about the film, well after its over - so, in some way it did what it set out to do. Too bad I didn't enjoy it.....at all. Now, I can easily stand behind my vote for No Country For Old Men, which is one of the best films I have ever seen. Period.To the max, yo. I loved the soundtrack, but outside of that I'm pretty much right there with you. I didn't not like it, but I did think it was just okay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm sitting through this right now and its even worse than the Grammys though John Stewart is pretty great. Also I hope I'm not too much of a creep by saying that I'm attracted to someone that is 13 year younger than me, but Ellen Page sure is cute. looking forward to her introducing Wilco next week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Looks like the Coens swept the big two. No complaints here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Looks like the Coens swept the big two. No complaints here. Sweet Jesus...the Coens look like somebody told them their dog died. Smile guys...you just won the Two biggest awards in your profession. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Muncle Douchey Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 god, i love the coen brothers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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