Good Old Neon Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Bush Administration's lawbreaking is just as cut and dry, people are just too afraid or ignorant to do anything about it. Just because they make arguments does not mean they are at all valid -- most of them are blatantly dishonest. And yeah, that clouds the debate and makes it sound more nuanced than it is, but that does not mean that the arguements are legitimate ones. Again, I'm not defending Spitzer at all (though I'm more concerned with his rank hypocrisy than with the act of having sex with a prostitute -- if he hadn't made his name busting prostitution rings I really wouldn't care at all). I'm just saying that the degree and type of attention that this story is receiving demonstrates yet again the skewed priorities of our media. Unfortunately, Bush Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Bush Administration's lawbreaking is just as cut and dry, people are just too afraid or ignorant to do anything about it. Just because they make arguments does not mean they are at all valid -- most of them are blatantly dishonest. And yeah, that clouds the debate and makes it sound more nuanced than it is, but that does not mean that the arguements are legitimate ones.Who's been charged with a crime though? Allegations are one thing and charges of criminality quite another. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShuckOwens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 But since you are asking, you do see the difference between getting some sex for money and violating the constitution, right?If you see the difference between saying (or singing): "Bush violated the constitution" and violating the constitution. Hey, if Eddie Vedder is blogging about it, it's got to be the truth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 For the record, if I had bigger bank I'd be gettin some 5-star tail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShuckOwens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Who's been charged with a crime though? Allegations are one thing and charges of criminality quite another.My point exactly... just without the shit-stirring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I love it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Who's been charged with a crime though? Allegations are one thing and charges of criminality quite another. Spitzer has been charged with no crime at this point. Just because there are no charges does not mean there is no crime -- when the people in power are the ones being investigated, there is a lot that they can do to make sure that no one is charged. And it is a lot easier for them to get away with when the media is putting no pressure on them whatsoever. Take a look at the Justice Department over the last several years and tell me that they aren't covering up some pretty major crimes at many levels of the administration. Also, Scooter Libby was charged with a crime. He was even convicted of it. And he committed that crime in covering up other high crimes by high level officials. It was proven in court and yet the media never covered that case with the same gusto they're covering this even though the allegations (and again the crime he was convicted of were much more serious. Yes, indeed, it is all about sex. Edit: Again, my point isn't really that Bush is a criminal (though he is). My point is that the attention to this case is way out of proportion considering the way other stories of public corruption and criminality are covered. It's the media I'm going after here, not the Bush. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 okay, now it has become a "Bush Administration Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 MrRain, I agree with your take on this, actually. I feel the Bush Admin. is crooked and has broken the law on several fronts as well. I thought Spitzer had been charged with bringing a prostitute over state lines/trafficing or whatever it was already. My fault there. The guy's gotta go. Regardless, his crime is a simple one compared to some of the things Bush and his cronies have been accused of, eh? Caught red-handed and all. I agree that it's a lot different the higher up the ladder in politics you go in terms of what you can and can't get away with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 okay, now it has become a "Bush Administration Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chendizzle Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 As far as I'm concerned, Spitzer's ethical transgressions dwarf in comparison to the ethical transgressions of half a million innocent people killed in Iraq, thousands of our soldiers killed and wounded (and then not caring for them on their return), handing out billions to KBR for a colonization project, plunging our financial future down the toilet, leaving future generations with a shit environment, not providing our citizens with adequate health care - not to name the countless other political failings of our current government. But of course Spitzer is sooo unmoral and basically the devil. I'm sure if all the members of Congress or high political office who had slept with a prostitute were outed and forced to resign there'd be a lot of jobs up for grabs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 okay, now it has become a "Bush Administration Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 As far as I'm concerned, Spitzer's ethical transgressions dwarf in comparison to the ethical transgressions of half a million innocent people killed in Iraq, thousands of our soldiers killed and wounded (and then not caring for them on their return), handing out billions to KBR for a colonization project, plunging our financial future down the toilet, leaving future generations with a shit environment, not providing our citizens with adequate health care - not to name the countless other political failings of our current government. But of course Spitzer is sooo unmoral and basically the devil. I'm sure if all the members of Congress or high political office who had slept with a prostitute were outed and forced to resign there'd be a lot of jobs up for grabs.Of course banging a whore dwarfs in comparison. Is anyone debating that? This doesn't mean he's fit to continue to run the state of NY though. He screwed up, got caught, and needs to step down in the best interests of the state. The man is in charge of running the state and is having flings on the side. It's relevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 His flings on the side are not relevent though. The fact that he's a big hypocrite is. If he had never said a word about prostitution or worked to fight it then this would be a completely non-story as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 His flings on the side are not relevent though. The fact that he's a big hypocrite is. If he had never said a word about prostitution or worked to fight it then this would be a completely non-story as far as I'm concerned.This I omitted and assumed we were on the same page about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Of course banging a whore dwarfI thought this post was going to end better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 This I omitted and assumed we were on the same page about. Right on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 A Timeline of Politicians and ProstitutesPosted March 11, 2008 Compiled by the U.S. News & World Report library staff 1974: Future television host Jerry Springer, then a city councilman in Cincinnati, resigned from office after it was revealed that he met a prostitute in a health club and paid her by personal check. The incident became an issue again in 1982, when Springer ran for governor. His campaign ran television ads in which Springer explained the incident and proclaimed that he was "not afraid" of the truth.Related News 1976: Rep. Joe Waggonner, a Louisiana Democrat, was arrested in a Washington, D.C., prostitution sting. He was re-elected that fall and retired in 1978. 1976: Rep. Allan Howe, a Utah Democrat, was arrested after he approached two undercover policewomen for sex. He did not resign but lost his bid for re-election that fall. 1978: Rep. Fred Richmond, a New York Democrat, was arrested when he solicited sex from an underage male prostitute. He avoided prosecution by going into psychiatric counseling. His district re-elected him twice more, but he resigned in 1982 after pleading guilty to drug possession. 1980: Rep. Robert Bauman, a Maryland Republican, was arrested after patronizing an underage male prostitute. He blamed his actions on addictions to alcohol and sex. A month later, Bauman lost his bid for re-election. 1990: Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, was reprimanded for his relations with prostitute Stephen Gobie. Years earlier, Frank had paid Gobie for sex; he eventually hired him as his assistant. Gobie was later accused of running a sex business out of Frank's home. Frank was censured by the House for writing a letter on his behalf. He has since won re-election. Frank apologized to his constituents: "I did not handle the pressures of having a public life, of being a closeted gay man, nearly as well as I should have." 1996: Clinton political strategist Dick Morris submitted his resignation after the Star tabloid revealed that he had engaged in a yearlong affair with a Washington-area prostitute. The woman, Sherry Ann Rowlands, claimed that Morris had allowed her to listen in on a telephone call from the president. 2001: Philip Giordano, the Republican mayor of Waterbury, Conn., was arrested for sexually abusing children after he was charged with paying a prostitute to arrange encounters with her underage daughter and niece. Giordano was convicted on federal and state charges. Now in federal prison, he recently filed his fifth appeal of his conviction. 2007: Sen. David Vitter, a Lousiana Republican, issued a public apology after his name was linked to a Washington escort service run by Deborah Jeane Palfrey, the so-called D.C. Madam. Earlier in his career, Vitter had been accused of seeing a prostitute in New Orleans, a charge which he denied. 2008: Federal investigators discover that Eliot Spitzer, the Democratic governor of New York, has been a client of an exclusive prostitution ring. It is alleged that he paid several thousand dollars for sexual services. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 His flings on the side are not relevent though. The fact that he's a big hypocrite is. If he had never said a word about prostitution or worked to fight it then this would be a completely non-story as far as I'm concerned.I am as anarchistic as anybody, but holy shit. The chief law enforcement officer of the state admitted he broke the law. It's kind of like seeing a cop do something on the road that if a cop saw you do, you would totally get a ticket, times a million. New York is not as bad as some people make it out to be, but we do have some things we have to deal with, and Spitzer staying in office while this plays out would be a huge impediment to that.A woman at our office is not in favor of Paterson being governor. Not because he is black, but because he is blind. "They could put anything in front of him to sign," she argued. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShuckOwens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Almost Rovian in its keeping on message and not acknowledging things that don't make you look good.Such as? Again, we need to acknowledge the difference between a Green Day concert, blogging buddies, and actual charges of crimes. By the way, our fair state is worse than most people make it out to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 His flings on the side are not relevent though. The fact that he's a big hypocrite is. If he had never said a word about prostitution or worked to fight it then this would be a completely non-story as far as I'm concerned. But Spitzer isn't accused of just flings on the side. This is money laundering and prostitution. I dont think a governor (or AG) needs to be perfect, but he/she needs to find a way to obey the law, no? I don't get it -- your problem is his hypocrisy? Politicians are hypocrites all the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 A woman at our office is not in favor of Paterson being governor. Not because he is black, but because he is blind. "They could put anything in front of him to sign," she argued. No words can adequately describe the idiocy of that statement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I should amend my statement to say that yes, the process of working through this whole mess is too much to deal with and still attend to the state's business. I agree with that completely. I just meant that I don't think that the actual act of paying a prostitute for sex matters at all. Certainly the time it will take him to deal with the fall out of it does matter though, and does make it impossible for him to continue doing his duties as governor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShuckOwens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 His flings on the side are not relevent though. The fact that he's a big hypocrite is. If he had never said a word about prostitution or worked to fight it then this would be a completely non-story as far as I'm concerned.Also importamt to realize the difference between cheating on your spouse, and spending $80,000 to cheat on your spouse with multiple prostitutes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 No words can adequately describe the idiocy of that statement. or the hilarity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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