Fox News is AWESOME!

[John Smith]

I do not for one minute believe that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle or that there needs to be balance to the news. I'll take the extreme case....the Holocaust. There are Holocaust deniers out there and they are vocal when they have a platform, which is not often. But the deniers have their position and then there is the historically acceptable position that the holocaust actually occurred. Where exactly is the middle ground here? Also where or why would there be any need for balance? Take it one extreme step further...Hitler's regime had a view of the "Jewish problem" is that an acceptable view to take just to provide balance to the argument simply for the sake of balance since that position is so far removed from the reality?

 

The way I view it is that the media (primarily Murdoch and co) has sold these notions very hard over the years. What it gives the public is the thought that sure FOX is extreme, but the other news sources must also be very extreme because they are so far removed from Fox's views, therefore truth must lay somewhere between them. This might be true if all other news stations were reporting from an extreme position. I don't believe they are. Just because they report bad news may not mean they are Bush hating anti-American defeatists, maybe they are simply reporting the truth without bias. Perhaps things have been f***ed up badly during this administration, perhaps they really are reporting from the middle of the road. If they are, and I believe they actually report from a slightly right of center view point, then Fox's "balance" is false. It is merely balancing mainstream with a radical right wing view point and selling it as a middle of the road position. I am talking strictly news here, I'm not talking about the pundits. Though Fox seems to be all pundits all the time. News is news and presenting it as such does not make one station or another right wing or left wing. But FOX almost always adds editorializing to their news presentation. Ach I've had enough of this topic, I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion, I've gotta go.

[bleedorange]

I do not for one minute believe that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle or that there needs to be balance to the news. I'll take the extreme case....the Holocaust. There are Holocaust deniers out there and they are vocal when they have a platform, which is not often. But the deniers have their position and then there is the historically acceptable position that the holocaust actually occurred. Where exactly is the middle ground here? Also where or why would there be any need for balance? Take it one extreme step further...Hitler's regime had a view of the "Jewish problem" is that an acceptable view to take just to provide balance to the argument simply for the sake of balance since that position is so far removed from the reality?

 

The way I view it is that the media (primarily Murdoch and co) has sold these notions very hard over the years. What it gives the public is the thought that sure FOX is extreme, but the other news sources must also be very extreme because they are so far removed from Fox's views, therefore truth must lay somewhere between them. This might be true if all other news stations were reporting from an extreme position. I don't believe they are. Just because they report bad news may not mean they are Bush hating anti-American defeatists, maybe they are simply reporting the truth without bias. Perhaps things have been f***ed up badly during this administration, perhaps they really are reporting from the middle of the road. If they are, and I believe they actually report from a slightly right of center view point, then Fox's "balance" is false. It is merely balancing mainstream with a radical right wing view point and selling it as a middle of the road position. I am talking strictly news here, I'm not talking about the pundits. Though Fox seems to be all pundits all the time. News is news and presenting it as such does not make one station or another right wing or left wing. But FOX almost always adds editorializing to their news presentation. Ach I've had enough of this topic, I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion, I've gotta go.

 

So Fox = Hitler?

 

Godwin's Law strikes again!

[uncle wilco]

i like how some people take a quote from someone and just run with it.

 

damn.

 

I do not for one minute believe that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle or that there needs to be balance to the news.

 

that's as far as i got before it started getting weird. starting the weekend early are we John?

[Good Old Neon]

So Fox = Hitler?

 

Godwin's Law strikes again!

 

I think you missed his point.

[uncle wilco]

I think you missed his point.

what was the point?

 

MSLSD is the ying to FOX's yang.

 

i think those two networks actually have a crush on eachother. they need to just get a room.

[Good Old Neon]

what was the point?

 

MSLSD is the ying to FOX's yang.

 

i think those two networks actually have a crush on eachother. they need to just get a room.

 

I think it's pretty obvious, and speaks for itself. What it wasn't, I don't think, was an attempt to equate Hitler and his atrocities with Fox.

[bleedorange]

I think it's pretty obvious, and speaks for itself. What it wasn't, I don't think, was an attempt to equate Hitler and his atrocities with Fox.

 

No, I don't think he was equating Fox with Hitler. I was mainly commenting on the fact that a Hitler reference and comparison was made. Hence, my remark about Godwin's Law.

[uncle wilco]

No, I don't think he was equating Fox with Hitler. I was mainly commenting on the fact that a Hitler reference and comparison was made. Hence, my remark about Godwin's Law.

 

hitler is an essential weapon in the left-wing arsenal vs. the right.

 

when in doubt, let adolph out.

[Good Old Neon]

No, I don't think he was equating Fox with Hitler. I was mainly commenting on the fact that a Hitler reference and comparison was made. Hence, my remark about Godwin's Law.

 

 

That's cool - I just don't think it, Mr. Godwin's Law, is applicable here.

[Good Old Neon]

hitler is an essential weapon in the left-wing arsenal vs. the right.

 

when in doubt, let adolph out.

 

Hmmmm

[uncle wilco]

Hmmmm

[Good Old Neon]

bill is so much more cuddlier though.

 

Are we referring to some sort of undisclosed, heretofore unknown impropriety here - a lost crazy weekend at The Whitehouse?

 

 

 

i've never heard a president compared to hitler more than bush was. regardless of our microscopic opinion of dubya, that's pretty harsh. it's like the lazy fall back insult...that and the whole chimpanzee thing.

 

But yeah, I agree - most of the Hitler/Bush comparisons are lame.

[bleedorange]

That's cool - I just don't think it, Mr. Godwin's Law, is applicable here.

 

"As a ... discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

 

I think it fits.

[owl]

hitler is an essential weapon in the left-wing arsenal vs. the right.

 

Unless you're on the right and you equate liberals with German appeasement in WWII.

 

I don't think it really has anything to do with left or right or the Internet. It's an example of logical fallacy that's been around for thousands of years. It's called Appeal to Ridicule.

[uncle wilco]

Unless you're on the right and you equate liberals with German appeasement in WWII.

 

I don't think it really has anything to do with left or right or the Internet. It's an example of logical fallacy that's been around for thousands of years. It's called Appeal to Ridicule.

 

i'd prefer that politicians leave all the nazi stuff out of the discussion period. i don't care which side of the aisle they are on. there is no place for it.

[owl]

Agree 100%

[Mr. Kinsley]

i've never heard a president compared to hitler more than bush was. regardless of our microscopic opinion of dubya, that's pretty harsh. it's like the lazy fall back insult...

True

 

...that and the whole chimpanzee thing.

False

[Party @ the Moontower]

Bush said he would like to be a dictator because it would sure make things easier. Hitler said about the same thing, then he became a dictator. So is Bushy boy a fascist dictator doo doo head? I found a special fun checklist called "the 14 warning signs of a fascist government".U decide.I ain't smart enough to make this up.

 

 

The 14 Warning Signs of a Fascist Government:

 

 

1 Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

 

 

 

2 Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

 

 

 

3 Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

 

 

 

4 Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

 

 

 

5 Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

 

 

 

6 Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

 

 

 

7 Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

 

 

 

8 Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

 

 

 

9 Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

 

10 Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

 

 

 

11 Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

 

 

 

12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

 

 

 

13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

 

 

 

14 Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[bjorn_skurj]

If we really had fascism in this country, I would be dead, as they always come for journalists first. I am not dead, so no fascism. I may be accused of not being alarmist enough, but IMHO, America's too big and too diverse a country to even possibly be run in a fascistic manner. My one worry, though, is that the power of surveillance and information technology does tend to grease the rails for a more authoritative structure. Watch Net Neutrality - if they really are going to make an attempt to control information, they will start with the Internet, and use ISPs as their tool.

[Good Old Neon]

I think Bush

[John Smith]

So Fox = Hitler?

 

Godwin's Law strikes again!

 

If that's your take away from my post, then that's your take away. It misses the obvious intentionand the obvious message, but it apparently works for you. Of course not noticing that I said I'll take the extreme example to make a point. Is there any example more extreme? I don't think so. so just go on with the notion that there shoudl be balance to every story and tha the truth lays some where between two stories, it will work well for you and your ilk and is exactly why our country is in such a F***ing mess right now.

 

BTW if you notice I don't compare anyone or anyones ideology to Hitlers. I use his regime and their actions as a way to ask where is the balance, and is the truth somewhere between their actions and the historical truth. They are the prime example that the notion that balance must exist is false. I didn't compare FOX or the republican party to their regime, but you somehow think I do thus fulfulling godwin's law. You are wrong of course.

[John Smith]

hitler is an essential weapon in the left-wing arsenal vs. the right.

 

when in doubt, let adolph out.

 

Essential weapon of the left? Ummm who exactly has used the spector of hitler to riase the war cry in this country? Sadaam is Hitler on the rise the president of Iran is Hitler on the rise. Can't appease like chamberlin did etc... it goes on and on endlessly. OF course you won't agree with my position because you view the world differently, and that is a big part of my point.

[the carlos]

The "Hitler comparison" is a catch-all. It fits almost any argument and is used by most sides to cover the extreme.

[ikol]

The "Hitler comparison" is a catch-all. It fits almost any argument and is used by most sides to cover the extreme.

 

That sounds like something Hitler would say.

[the carlos]

you!