barnyard pimp Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I think there are too many references to love for this to be about a poor man Taking a rich man's place in war, though there are obvious allusions to that, as well. I think it is being written for a couple of people, not just one. In one verse, he makes reference to being paid, and in the very next talks about 'the love no longer here'. "And none will shed a tear for their love no longer here" refers to the rich man who has died. It probably just flowed better than "none will shed a tear for their old rich relative or friend no longer here". The final line of the song seems to loop back to this one, indicating that though the 'poor man' has died, his life had more value because his love was felt by whomever (someone specific or general friends/family, it isn't clear, to me at least). I think the song is a pretty literal story, which I would dumb down to 'money can't buy/replace love'. Or perhaps 'money may get you out of death, but it can't buy/replace love.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robby Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I had to go back and re-read these lyrics before giving an opinion.I would agree that the song "takes both sides" which is part of the reason it is brilliant.It's unfortunate, but I could forsee this song being played at too many military funerals in the months to come. The narrator attempts to make us feel proud and seems to feel noble from the pronouncements he/her makes in the song (I'll go, I'll fight, I'll die). However, while these statements may make the narrator feel proud, many of the other things they say paint an image of a character who is quite sad. One who feels that they can only acheive redemption, salvation and honor by going to fight and die in a war. The narrator confuses themselves with the idea that to be patriotic is to be pious.I beleive that he/she may be speaking to their spouse or their child. However, it seems more likely that the narrator is speaking to a parent. And again, they feel that the only way they can make the parent (probably a father - but that's my issue) feel proud of the narrator is to go off to war.So the song honors a soldier at the same time has pity for a soldier because of what the soldier beleives.I also think that the repetiveness of the song is intentional so as to be the cadence of a march. The strangest part of this song is that my wife told me she liked it very much. For her to remark that she likes ANY Wilco song is mind blowing. OK, that's my two cents. You may now proceed to throw tomatoes at your will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CommerceComet Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Every part of this song makes me think it's a dead soldier's message to President Bush. Taking the place in war for a rich man. The Christian imagery. All of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
junior five Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think it's far and away the best song on the record, and perhaps the best song since YHF. This record, like most Wilco records, gets better and better over time. Now a few months in, I think it's a solid record and fits perfectly in the overall Wilco catalog. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
treece Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I love this song, but I can't help thinking of the Little Peggy March song, "I Will Follow Him" everytime I hear it. Therefore it makes me think of Whoopi Goldberg too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
newbornghost Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I didn't mind the Jesus reference. I think it ties in nicely, and the person of Jesus has been tied into tragic situations for centuries, in works of literature, in philosophical treatises, in music: he represents goodness extinguished by corruption and the idea of "dying for a cause," even to people who aren't Christian. A sort of ideal. Who knows exactly what Jeff thinks of Jesus. But you have to admit, the "you have to learn how to die if you want to be alive" business certainly seems in tune with Christ. Anyway, I'm with those who really like this song. It gets stuck in my head a lot. Jeff does seem to take the meanings of Jesus pretty seriously in a number of his songs. I love 'The Ruling Class' as Jeff's rebuke of those who try to remake Jesus into their own image. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I love this song, but I can't help thinking of the Little Peggy March song, "I Will Follow Him" everytime I hear it. Therefore it makes me think of Whoopi Goldberg too! That song was in GoodFellas, too - so if you want to get Whoopi out of your head you can replace her with Joe Pesci. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
treece Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I don't seem to recall that scene in GoodFellas. Please refresh my memory, Sir Stewart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I don't seem to recall that scene in GoodFellas. Please refresh my memory, Sir Stewart. I think it's playing when Karen confronts Henry after he stands her up - "who do you think you are, Frankie Valli or some bigshot?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
treece Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think it's playing when Karen confronts Henry after he stands her up - "who do you think you are, Frankie Valli or some bigshot?" Ahh yes...when he says she looked like Liz Taylor. One of the greatest flicks of all time. Anyway, do you hear it too in "I'll Fight"?. The, "I love him, I love him, I love him, and where he goes I'll follow, I'll follow, I'll follow....". Pretty damn similar if you ask me. Not just the repetitive quality, but the cadence as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Ahh yes...when he says she looked like Liz Taylor. One of the greatest flicks of all time. Indeed! Anyway, do you hear it too in "I'll Fight"?. The, "I love him, I love him, I love him, and where he goes I'll follow, I'll follow, I'll follow....". Pretty damn similar if you ask me. Not just the repetitive quality, but the cadence as well.I'd only been hearing 'On and On and On' - I'll listen for this though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Anyway, do you hear it too in "I'll Fight"?. The, "I love him, I love him, I love him, and where he goes I'll follow, I'll follow, I'll follow....". Pretty damn similar if you ask me. Not just the repetitive quality, but the cadence as well.Definitely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimtweedy1977 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Jim also thought the latest Black Eyed Peas album was a great album; I don't take too much stock in his opinion I'll Fight is also one of my favorites on the album. I don't understand Jim DeRogatis's reference to it as an "annoying sing-song toss-off." I especially like And you'll sing to yourselfThe rising, falling melodyThat you could never readWithout the choir's lead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rock Dad Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'll Fight gave me shivers the first time I heard it. I thought it was a love song at first. I was blown away halfway through when I realized the narrator isn't singing to a lover or parent, but to his rich patron. I thought the singer might have been a slave. I took the "cross" reference as a visual image and didn't put a political spin on it. I see it's there after reading this thread. One of the things I love about Wilco is that surprise me all the time. This song was one of the biggest fun surprises on the album for me. The other was the all the repeated C quarter notes in Bull Black Nova. We all know what to expect now, but the first time through weren't you were wondering how long they would repeat that note? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shakey Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think its the best song on the record. By far. Beautiful melody. I'm not a fan of On and On and On Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Having listened to the album for about two months now, I have decided that "I'll Fight" is a good song that I don't like. At first I thought it was a bad song that I didn't like (a la LMLYFM, though not even close to the same proportion of suck), but after going on a bit of a Josh Ritter binge I noticed a lot of similarities between "I'll Fight" and a number of Josh Ritter songs I don't like. There's just a certain type of song I don't enjoy listening to, and this is it. The musicianship is great, the lyrics are great, but this kind of song just doesn't relate to me and I don't much care for how it sounds. Whew. That felt good! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
indy81 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I like "On and On and On" a lot more. With a slower song the repetition takes on more emotion and is less sing-songy (to steal from DeRogatis) and (for me) grating than it is in an up-tempo tune. I'm also not a fan of the "groovy" keyboard sound. Also, I heard "I'll Fight" live and thought it was a bit of a dud -- like "What Light", it never really goes anywhere. Having said that, I still would like to see it in the setlists, along with the other new songs they haven't yet played. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
newbornghost Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I think everyone's making too much of the melodic comparison to 'On and On and On'...sure, it's there, but you can do that with lots of songwriters, and the overall song structure of I'll Fight is much different. The same melody leads in two very different directions in each song. These two are nowhere near as close to each other as 'Far, Far Away' and 'Sky Blue Sky', IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barnyard pimp Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I almost never hear 'On and On...' now that I've listened to 'I'll Fight' so much, though it was very obvious when I first heard the song and for many listens afterwards. I'm astonished Jeff said he didn't understand the comparisons (though he was probably thinking more lyrically vs melodically, but come on..). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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