uncool2pillow Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070601197_pf.html He may be more responsible than anybody for the escalation of Vietnam, but anyone who has watched Fog of War knows it's a disaster that haunted him the remainder of his years. If you haven't seen that movie, do yourself a favor. It covers much more than Vietnam. Basically the end of WWII through the Cold War. It's an important historical document. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 A Simple Desultory Phillipic (or how I was Robert Mcnamara'd into submission) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 A Simple Desultory Phillipic (or how I was Robert Mcnamara'd into submission)Just googled that. I thought I knew Simon & Garfunkel well enough to recognize all their song titles. Guess not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Has there ever been a better (more biting?) parody of Dylan? great tune. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Has there ever been a better (more biting?) parody of Dylan? great tune. "Dylan Thomas...whoever he was." For a few years in the early '90s I was an aficionado of throwaway songs on albums by big name '60s artists, and this was one of my favorites. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Struck me as a man who was very smart, but not very wise. A man who put too much faith in numbers. but history is always easy in retrospect. RIP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 The complicated-ness of McNamara's legacy makes Michael Jackson's look simple by comparison. I know the dude felt bad about Vietnam, but does the guilt of one man make up for all that? I dunno. A cautionary tale of what happens when you decouple humanity from logic, I suppose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Struck me as a man who was very smart, but not very wise. A man who put too much faith in numbers. but history is always easy in retrospect. RIP.The complicated-ness of McNamara's legacy makes Michael Jackson's look simple by comparison. I know the dude felt bad about Vietnam, but does the guilt of one man make up for all that? I dunno. A cautionary tale of what happens when you decouple humanity from logic, I suppose.Well said by both of you. Expressing guilt does not exonerate him, but at least he genuinely (imo) expressed sorrow for his actions. Very rare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Interesting how RM's legacy gets qualified here at VC. would we be harsher if he'd served under republican administrations? Will Rummy get the same treatment when he goes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Interesting how RM's legacy gets qualified here at VC. would we be harsher if he'd served under republican administrations? Will Rummy get the same treatment when he goes?If Rummy manages to show sincere contrition, then yes. I can't imagine that he would, but you never know. Edit: I vote mostly Republican and I've cut him more slack than anyone else here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 A Simple Desultory Phillipic (or how I was Robert Mcnamara'd into submission)I listened to that song a million times, but haven't thought of it in years. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Interesting how RM's legacy gets qualified here at VC. would we be harsher if he'd served under republican administrations? Will Rummy get the same treatment when he goes? Good question. Rummy's legacy is still being dealt with, but I can't imagine that it will approach the scale of destruction and death wrought by MacNamara in WWII and Vietnam. We'll see. Vietnam is a strange one, though. Yes, it was a Democrat-run war, yet liberals hate(d) it, and conservatives seem to wish we'd seen it through. I'm not sure that MacNamara gets any special consideration because the catastrophe was wrought by Democrats. Either way, it was horrendous. MacNamara was an interesting figure who provided a lot of insight and tried to repent toward the end of his life. I'm not so sure he deserves our RIPs, though. If there's a hell, he's surely in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Rummy should do a confessional documentary with Errol Morris. Then we can decide. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 These two paragraphs from the Salon piece sum things up rather nicely, in my opinion. The clue to McNamara's significance is that he was demonized by the left, the right and the center. If there is a Rorschach Prize, he deserved it. Other American public figures have been hated by one side, but usually they have been defended by the other. I can't think of anybody else in American history whom liberals, conservatives and moderates all joined in denouncing. Why? The vitriol that was directed against McNamara always seemed excessive and even unhinged to me. After all, he wasn't the president. Why not blame Kennedy for deepening the U.S. involvement in Indochina, or Johnson for escalating it, or Nixon for prolonging it? But Kennedy, Johnson and even Nixon have had their partisans, who have sought to minimize the collateral damage done to the reputations of these presidents by their failed Vietnam policies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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