Big Star

[Guest Alan]

I love Big Star but would have to go with:

 

• Led Zeppelin III (1970)
• Led Zeppelin IV (1971)
• Houses of the Holy (1973)
• Physical Graffiti (1975)
• Presence (1976)
• In Through the Out Door (1979)

or possibly:

 

• Atom Heart Mother (1970)
• Meddle (1971)
• Obscured by Clouds (1972)
• The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
• Wish You Were Here (1975)
• Animals (1977)
• The Wall (1979)

 

Personally I disqualify LZ from any of these sorts of arguments because they were such ripoff artists. That, and their later 70's work got pretty embarrassing.

 

There are a couple duds in that PF lineup but it's harder to argue against them. They were quite revolutionary and innovative. Meddle will always be one of my favorite albums.

[CortezTheKiller]

If you were allowed to only count those first two albums you'd have a case. but the other 4 really bring the stones down in the 70's.

While I won't argue with the quality of the first two surpassing the next four, Goat's, R & R, B & B, and Girls are all very good in their own right, with the latter being the best. I like Big Star a lot. The Stones knock Big Star out of the water. Even if it was Sticky, Exile, and 8 klunkers, it's still The Stones by a moonlight mile.

[cryptique]

Personally I disqualify LZ from any of these sorts of arguments because they were such ripoff artists.

On their first two, maybe three albums, yes. And the first two were in the 60s.

 

From the fourth album on, what did they rip off, exactly?

[Guest Alan]

On their first two, maybe three albums, yes. And the first two were in the 60s.

 

From the fourth album on, what did they rip off, exactly?

After some fast research:

 

"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."

 

"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).

 

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.

 

"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit. Blogovich sez: Not “apparently”. This one is startling. Taurus, by Spirit (great band, pick up a compilation at least, highly recommended), is an instrumental of three minutes' duration; Zep copied the entire song and used it as the intro to Stairway. Give it a listen. But sit down first. Ridiculous.

 

Give “Sail Away” by Deep Purple (1974 Burn album with David Coverdale on lead vocals) a listen and tell me Zep’s Trampled Underfoot from Physical Graffiti (1975) isn’t the same borrowed-from-Ritchie Blackmore riff, just speeded up. And Zep singer Robert Plant had the gall, at the height of the later Whitesnake’s admittedly Zep-derivative success, to call Coverdale “David Coverversion”? Amazing arrogance and the pot calling the kettle black crap. Further, Plant’s got the gall to write forwards to blues books and such, while his band so overtly ripped off those same artists.

 

 

When a band has a track record of plagiarism like LZ everything has to be questioned.

[froggie]

I love Big Star but would have to go with:

 

• Led Zeppelin III (1970)
• Led Zeppelin IV (1971)
• Houses of the Holy (1973)
• Physical Graffiti (1975)
• Presence (1976)
• In Through the Out Door (1979)

or possibly:

 

• Atom Heart Mother (1970)
• Meddle (1971)
• Obscured by Clouds (1972)
• The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
• Wish You Were Here (1975)
• Animals (1977)
• The Wall (1979)

 

 

[cryptique]

After some fast research:

 

"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."

 

"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).

 

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.

 

"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit. Blogovich sez: Not “apparently”. This one is startling. Taurus, by Spirit (great band, pick up a compilation at least, highly recommended), is an instrumental of three minutes' duration; Zep copied the entire song and used it as the intro to Stairway. Give it a listen. But sit down first. Ridiculous.

 

Give “Sail Away” by Deep Purple (1974 Burn album with David Coverdale on lead vocals) a listen and tell me Zep’s Trampled Underfoot from Physical Graffiti (1975) isn’t the same borrowed-from-Ritchie Blackmore riff, just speeded up. And Zep singer Robert Plant had the gall, at the height of the later Whitesnake’s admittedly Zep-derivative success, to call Coverdale “David Coverversion”? Amazing arrogance and the pot calling the kettle black crap. Further, Plant’s got the gall to write forwards to blues books and such, while his band so overtly ripped off those same artists.

 

 

When a band has a track record of plagiarism like LZ everything has to be questioned.

I'll give you the uncredited blues covers, and there's no real excuse for it (I've not read enough about Led Zeppelin to know whether an excuse was ever even offered). That's precisely why I didn't defend their first two or three albums against your charge.

 

But I know that Spirit song (I'm a big fan) and I think that one's a coincidence. A common thumb technique combined with a common method of walking down chords. Could Page have heard this and lifted it for "Stairway to Heaven"? Sure, anything's possible -- but it's equally possible that he came up with that opening independently. He does enough additional stuff with it, simultaneously, for it to be entirely plausible as a coincidence.

 

And I really don't hear the similarity between "Sail Away" and "Trampled Underfoot." Sorry. I mean, I know where people think they hear a similarity, but I don't think there's enough there to constitute a theft by Page.

[froggie]

> And I really don't hear the similarity between "Sail Away" and "Trampled Underfoot."

 

Trampled is a slightly different take towards Robert Johnson's "Terraplane blues"

[futureman]

if you guys are going to argue about who owned the 1970's, it wasn't any aforementioned bands. now i love the stones, zeppelin and Big Star, but check Neil Young "body of work" for the 70's

 

Déjà Vu (1970) with Crosby, Stills & Nash

After The Gold Rush (1970)

Four Way Street (1971) with Crosby, Stills & Nash

Harvest (1972)

Time Fades Away (1973)

On The Beach (1974)

Tonight’s The Night (1975)

Zuma (1975) with Crazy Horse

American Stars And Bars (1977)

Comes A Time (1978)

Rust Never Sleeps (1979) with Crazy Horse

 

sorry, but no competition there

[jff]

 

 

 

 

Was this at Centennial Park in Atlanta? I was at that show. There were about 20-30 people actually paying attention to them. It was kinda sad. I was geeked though. Had never seen Chilton before.

 

Yeah, that was the show I saw. You're right. The crowd was apathetic.

[PopTodd]

Chilton can be a pretty crappy performer, though, too.

Witness Big Star's performance on The Tonight Show back around 1998, or so, as well. Not so good.

[jff]

I'd name Talking Heads as one band that started in the '70s that is a better '70s band than Big Star.

[Artifice]

Chilton can be a pretty crappy performer, though, too.

Witness Big Star's performance on The Tonight Show back around 1998, or so, as well. Not so good.

 

I was browsing youtube this weekend looking for something Big Star related, and I saw a video of Chilton on French TV. Some kind of unintentionally bad Tom Jones type of thing. What an abomination. I won't even link it.

 

As for the arguments - I guess when you make a statement like "best of", you're asking for discussion, but isn't it enough that Big Star is your favorite, or one of your favorite bands from that era?

[CortezTheKiller]

if you guys are going to argue about who owned the 1970's, it wasn't any aforementioned bands. now i love the stones, zeppelin and Big Star, but check Neil Young "body of work" for the 70's

 

Déjà Vu (1970) with Crosby, Stills & Nash

After The Gold Rush (1970)

Four Way Street (1971) with Crosby, Stills & Nash

Harvest (1972)

Time Fades Away (1973)

On The Beach (1974)

Tonight’s The Night (1975)

Zuma (1975) with Crazy Horse

American Stars And Bars (1977)

Comes A Time (1978)

Rust Never Sleeps (1979) with Crazy Horse

 

sorry, but no competition there

Agreed, but Neil Young is not a "band." Also don't forget the Stills/Young Band's Long May You Run from '76.

[jff]

Agreed, but Neil Young is not a "band." Also don't forget the Stills/Young Band's Long May You Run from '76.

 

In trying to come up with better groups than Big Star, I disqualified a lot of acts such as Bowie, Neil Young, etc. for that very reason. I also disqualified any band or artist that started in an earlier decade, even if the '70s was their most active decade (such as Zeppelin, Floyd).

 

That left me with slim-pickins.

 

So, as mentioned before, I'm sticking with Talking Heads.

[cryptique]

Television

[jff]

Television

 

I considered them. Marquee Moon is probably my favorite album of the '70s. If they had put out two more albums that were as good, it'd be no contest.

 

XTC and Devo might be worthy contenders.

[cryptique]

Adventure is underrated. But yeah, they probably needed a third '70s album to be serious contenders.

[cryptique]

After much thought, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Steely Dan was the best band of the '70s ... if we're talking about bands who started in the '70s and did their best work in that decade, and no solo artists (Springsteen, Graham Parker, etc.).

 

Six amazing '70s albums. Hard to beat the Dan.

[CortezTheKiller]

After much thought, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Steely Dan was the best band of the '70s ... if we're talking about bands who started in the '70s and did their best work in that decade, and no solo artists (Springsteen, Graham Parker, etc.).

 

Six amazing '70s albums. Hard to beat the Dan.

The Dan are absolutely in the conversation. Not sure I'd say they are the best. But absolutely belong in the discussion.

[jff]

After much thought, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Steely Dan was the best band of the '70s ... if we're talking about bands who started in the '70s and did their best work in that decade, and no solo artists (Springsteen, Graham Parker, etc.).

 

Six amazing '70s albums. Hard to beat the Dan.

 

They definitely deserve to be at or near the top. Good call.

[remphish1]

They definitely deserve to be at or near the top. Good call.

 

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned. Big Star are playing in Brooklyn soon..

 

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2009/09/big_star_releas.html#more

[Guest Alan]

After much thought, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Steely Dan was the best band of the '70s ... if we're talking about bands who started in the '70s and did their best work in that decade, and no solo artists (Springsteen, Graham Parker, etc.).

 

Six amazing '70s albums. Hard to beat the Dan.

I can't get a good read on Steely Dan. I only love Countdown to Ecstasy. Every other album I've been indifferent about. They are incredible musicians and all that but those guys pretty much invented "dad rock".

 

I'd name Talking Heads as one band that started in the '70s that is a better '70s band than Big Star.

One of my top 5 favorite bands, but most of their work came in the 80's. I WOULD call them the best band of the 80's though. And I don't know of many other bands that had a run of 6 albums better than the Talking Heads first 6.

[PopTodd]

I can't get a good read on Steely Dan. I only love Countdown to Ecstasy. Every other album I've been indifferent about. They are incredible musicians and all that but those guys pretty much invented "dad rock".

 

I thought that too.

But listen closely to the songs; the lyrics. The guys are pretty sarcastic and even subversive, at times. Intellectually punk.

[jff]

 

 

 

One of my top 5 favorite bands, but most of their work came in the 80's. I WOULD call them the best band of the 80's though. And I don't know of many other bands that had a run of 6 albums better than the Talking Heads first 6.

 

I'd place their '70s work higher than Big Star's, is what I meant. To my ears, Talking Heads took a huge dive after 1980, with a few notable exceptions.

 

I'm kind of surprised nobody mentioned Cheap Trick in this thread. I think they're a very average band, but a lot of people place them among the all-time greats.

[Guest Alan]

To my ears, Talking Heads took a huge dive after 1980, with a few notable exceptions.

 

 

Remain In Light is their best piece of work. And Speaking in Tongues an Little Creatures hold up with their previous albums.