Analogman Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 "Overexposed, commercialized, handle me with care."You gotta wonder what the Dark Horse would have had to say when Rock Band was being pitched to Apple Corps. From what I have read, it was Dhani Harrison who got the ball rolling on Rock Band, and got the others to go along with the idea. Which surprised me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Like Analogman said, it's hard to strip the culture away from the Beatles, and maybe near impossible for me. Growing up, I was a freak for the Beatles and Dylan, but never owned a Stones record. I bought both artists as the albums were released and proceeded to play the grooves off. So just like smells tend to recollect periods of time, albums from my youth accomplish the same. Don't know how it is for other folks, especially those that rediscover music at another time. I was only vaguely aware of punk music when it was a cultural phenomena (except I loved the Ramones. Go figure.), and while I now appreciate the genre very much, I realize that my appreciation could never be as visceral as one who lived the culture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 That reminds that I was sort of taught that if you like The Beatles, you were sort of automatically against The Stones. Which is odd, I know. They were in fact quite close in real life. Mick Jagger was hanging out with John off and on right up until the end of his life. The other day I was giving a young fellow a lecture about Dylan. He was asking me about the No Direction Home documentary, and all he owns is that and some greatest hits cd. He was surprised to learn that Dylan was not his real name, and this he is a Jew. Of course, I told him that two dudes in KISS were also Jews. He did not believe me, do I told him to do some research and look it up. Which reminds me - I saw some dudes get in a fight back in high school over the fact that one of them swore Vince Neil wrote Helter Skelter and some band called The Beatles "ripped the song off of him". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Just for the record, I didn't dislike the Stones at all. They just never grabbed me like Beatles and Dylan did, and I only had so much money to spend on LPs. Part of that demographic was being the first born child in my extended family. I was the older sister/cousin that turned on the younger sibs to good music. I was the one blazing the trail. My younger sister stole albums from me. That reminds that I was sort of taught that if you like The Beatles, you were sort of automatically against The Stones. Which is odd, I know. They were in fact quite close in real life. Mick Jagger was hanging out with John off and on right up until the end of his life. The other day I was giving a young fellow a lecture about Dylan. He was asking me about the No Direction Home documentary, and all he owns is that and some greatest hits cd. He was surprised to learn that Dylan was not his real name, and this he is a Jew. Of course, I told him that two dudes in KISS were also Jews. He did not believe me, do I told him to do some research and look it up. Which reminds me - I saw some dudes get in a fight back in high school over the fact that one of them swore Vince Neil wrote Helter Skelter and some band called The Beatles "ripped the song off of him".I love these stories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I learned about these things from my parents, and I don't think they ever owned any Stones albums. A neighbor gave me an original pressing of Satisfaction (45), and someone else gave me Through the Past, Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) (shaped like a stop sign) which were the first two Stones records I ever owned. I still have them, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I believe The Beatles did not care for him at first, but then, John became rather taken with him. You can clearly see this in the Help! film. He even began to dress like Dylan. I'm not sure if this is quite accurate. Evidence points to them being fans of Dylan from the beginning, and it was John who requested to meet him before a visit to NYC in the summer of 1964. From all accounts - they all got along swimmingly from their first meeting onwards. Dylan seemed keen on them as well, as he offered to get them high based on his misunderstanding of their lyrics from "I wanna hold your hand." He misheard "I can't hide" as "I get high" I think Dylan dismissed them at first, due to the fact that folk/blues performers looked at them as "making teenybopper" music. Likewise - not sure if this is quite right. Seems to me that Dylan, being the iconoclast, would have reacted against the view espoused by his contemporaries. And besides, when Dylan showed up to meet them in their NYC hotel, Both Peter Paul & Mary and the Kingston Trio were already there, also waiting to meet them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Rubber Soul (Winter 1965)Highway 61 Revisited (Summer 1965)Blonde on Blonde (Spring 1966) Revolver (Summer 1966)Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Summer 1967)John Wesley Harding (Winter 1967)The White Album (Winter 1968)Nashville Skyline (Spring 1969)Abbey Road (Fall 1969) Jesus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Analogman needs to write a book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Jesus. In the '80s it was sure annoying, as a teen, to hear old folks comparing everything to the '60s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm not sure if this is quite accurate. Evidence points to them being fans of Dylan from the beginning, and it was John who requested to meet him before a visit to NYC in the summer of 1964. From all accounts - they all got along swimmingly from their first meeting onwards. Dylan seemed keen on them as well, as he offered to get them high based on his misunderstanding of their lyrics from "I wanna hold your hand." He misheard "I can't hide" as "I get high" Likewise - not sure if this is quite right. Seems to me that Dylan, being the iconoclast, would have reacted against the view espoused by his contemporaries. And besides, when Dylan showed up to meet them in their NYC hotel, Both Peter Paul & Mary and the Kingston Trio were already there, also waiting to meet them. I guess it depends on what you read, and whose book is reporting what you read. I have probably read things that suggest what you said. It does go on in the Shelton book about he chided Joan Baez for covering Yesterday. But - that could be more about dumping on her, than the song, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I guess it depends on what you read, and whose book is reporting what you read. I have probably read things that suggest what you said. It does go on in the Shelton book about he chided Joan Baez for covering Yesterday. But - that could be more about dumping on her, than the song, of course.It's definitely hard to pin a motive on Dylan's actions - he changes the "whys" every time he's asked. There's an (apocryphal?) quote attributed to Dylan - saying condescendingly about the Jagger/Richards that he could write a "Satisfaction" if he wanted to, but they could never write a "Mr. Tamborine Man"... Dylan might have gone electric in order to get some of that same kind of "status" (for lack of a better word) as the Beatles/Stones, but I don't think he WAS able to write that kind of hook-based pop song. I'm sure someone will disagree. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Donovan was often referred to as a "poor man's Dylan", and I would never put Donovan in the same circle as Dylan, yet Donovan has a sonic quality to his hits, such as "Hurdy Gurdy Man" (giving credit to JPJ here) which was absent in Dylan's songs. Dylan's music, to me - is a straight ahead "these are the instruments in my song, and this is what they sound like" sound, whereas his contemporaries seemed way more willing to go off in new sonic directions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It's definitely hard to pin a motive on Dylan's actions - he changes the "whys" every time he's asked. There's an (apocryphal?) quote attributed to Dylan - saying condescendingly about the Jagger/Richards that he could write a "Satisfaction" if he wanted to, but they could never write a "Mr. Tamborine Man"... Dylan might have gone electric in order to get some of that same kind of "status" (for lack of a better word) as the Beatles/Stones, but I don't think he WAS able to write that kind of hook-based pop song. I'm sure someone will disagree. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Donovan was often referred to as a "poor man's Dylan", and I would never put Donovan in the same circle as Dylan, yet Donovan has a sonic quality to his hits, such as "Hurdy Gurdy Man" (giving credit to JPJ here) which was absent in Dylan's songs. Dylan's music, to me - is a straight ahead "these are the instruments in my song, and this is what they sound like" sound, whereas his contemporaries seemed way more willing to go off in new sonic directions. And yes - there are different answers to the same question, depending on what year the question was asked. Of course, Donovan started out as a folk strummer, and then went on to make electric full bands songs. I think that is true. Although, there were some attempts at Dylan singles (Mixed-Up Confusion). Dylan's "going electric" period always sounds a bit off kilter to me. But, by the time of John Wesley Harding/Nashville Skyline/New Morning/etc., it seems to fit him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm glad the name Donovan has been mentioned. I don't know how many fans are on this board but he really deserves a thread of his own. I've been a fan since I was just a little kid. His output from '65-'70 was some of the most eclectic pop music ever made. Folk troubadour, string quartets, lounge-jazz, world music, rock, and some stuff that defies catagorization. The weird, moody, Elizabethan vibe of a song like "Hampstead Incident" (a masterpiece imo) is completely original, and unmistakeably Donovan. I read somewhere that he is planning on touring next year. If he's within a few hours drive from me I am THERE. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I saw Donovan when I was in college at Eastern Michigan University. He was very fun. I have always been a fan. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm glad the name Donovan has been mentioned. I don't know how many fans are on this board but he really deserves a thread of his own. I've been a fan since I was just a little kid. His output from '65-'70 was some of the most eclectic pop music ever made. Folk troubadour, string quartets, lounge-jazz, world music, rock, and some stuff that defies catagorization. The weird, moody, Elizabethan vibe of a song like "Hampstead Incident" (a masterpiece imo) is completely original, and unmistakeably Donovan. I read somewhere that he is planning on touring next year. If he's within a few hours drive from me I am THERE. The kid I was talking to about Dylan the other day is into Donovan. That surprised me. He didn't know about the whole Mountain Jam deal, so I told him to look it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Analogman needs to write a book. I use to have a nifty title for my book, but I won't say it here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I use to have a nifty title for my book, but I won't say it here. "Crying Like A Banana In The Sun: The Cultural Shift Of Mid-60s America As Seen Through The Doomed Relationship Between Bob Dylan & Joan Baez" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 "Crying Like A Banana In The Sun: The Cultural Shift Of Mid-60s America As Seen Through The Doomed Relationship Between Bob Dylan & Joan Baez" Not bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 OK, I'm going to try to say what people are not saying (since I am willing to be a judgemental opinionated jerk). I sometimes like to be a contrarian (you know, hate it if others like it and love it if others hate it). I WAS this way with the Beatles and actually made a public comment once about Pink Floyd doing everything the Beatles were doing, but better. (That keeps me up at night) Bottom line, would I call Beatles my favorite band. No. They don't hold that kind of connection with me. Is there anyone ever that can hold a torch to them. No freaking way. People are throwing around Dylan, Kinks, Van Morrison?. It isn't even close. I once watched a documentary talking about how Beatles songs seemed to have always exsisted, that they are that much in our subconscious. I ask anyone to really view the world of song and try to tell me how Dylan or Kinks songs exsist in the beautiful simplistic well crafted perfect melody of the Beatles world. I get it, I gravitate toward the Byrds, I LOVE Donovan and I appreciate the Kinks and Dylan. And Neil Young is my favorite. But cmon, The Beatles wrote instant perfection like they were taking a shower. It isn't even close. So if you aren't connecting with that, stop trying to avoid what IS. It is beautiful and don't listen like a rock critic. Listen like a 6 year old and just flat out let it take you to a different world. The Beatles could do that like no one else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 That's a damn fine post right there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HungryHippo Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 it looks like a lot of people here are fans of the Beatles based solely on early childhood memories or sentimental memories for that matter. one of my earliest memories ever was of riding in my dad's truck and the Beatles coming on the radio. he told me, "this is a band called The Beatles." i then thought of the nasty, scary looking beetles in our backyard and wondered if the band themselves looked like those critters. i also grew up with Evan Rachel Wood's brother and would hang out at their house all of the time. i read in a recent interview that her folks would play The Beatles a lot. sometimes i think that the music could've worked its way into my subconscious when i was over at their place. never know, i reckon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 it looks like a lot of people here are fans of the Beatles based solely on early childhood memories or sentimental memories for that matter. Not "solely" at all for me. The Beatles and my mother are the only two items that were in my Top Five Favorite Things In Life when I was five, and still are today (sorry Mister Rogers). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Not "solely" at all for me. The Beatles and my mother are the only two items that were in my Top Five Favorite Things In Life when I was five, and still are today (sorry Mister Rogers). your avatar disturbs me and your post confuses me. If it is a top 5, and you only have two in there, then why are shutting Mr. Rogers out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 your avatar disturbs me It's Halloween season. and your post confuses me. If it is a top 5, and you only have two in there, then why are shutting Mr. Rogers out? Well, since I was 5, I've come to experience some other stuff that shuts him out of my top five. My wife, for example. And coffee... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Beatles wrote instant perfection like they were taking a shower.I like this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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