Guest Speed Racer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 No harm done. Oh, and take a bottle of quaaludes, then listen to some Autumn Defense. Then, meet Bread. My sense is that the haters are dismissing "You and I" without giving it a chance because it has that soft-rock feel, and ignoring the content. Now, I've said this earlier in the thread, but that's not fair at all. If the song has that "soft-rock feel" and they don't like that feel, then they don't like the song, content be damned. There are lots of country songs with good lyrics that I can't listen to because they have that "TNN-feel". And that's where it stops for me. And that's okay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 No harm done. Oh, and take a bottle of quaaludes, then listen to some Autumn Defense. Then, meet Bread. Now, I've said this earlier in the thread, but that's not fair at all. If the song has that "soft-rock feel" and they don't like that feel, then they don't like the song, content be damned. There are lots of country songs with good lyrics that I can't listen to because they have that "TNN-feel". And that's where it stops for me. And that's okay. not to rehash yesterday, but on the same token, if someone has an opinion of why people are dismissing this song, that is no less/more legitimate than what you are saying. Not being pissy, just pointing out a slight issue here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 that is no less/more legitimate than what you are saying. So I can also have my opinion on why their opinion of someone else's opinion is inappropriate. And you can have your opinion on why my opinion on someone else's opinion of someone else's opinion of a song is inappropriate I get what you're saying, but I still think it's easier/fairer to judge songs than to judge other people's opinions of songs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 So I can also have my opinion on why their opinion of someone else's opinion is inappropriate. And you can have your opinion on why my opinion on someone else's opinion of someone else's opinion of a song is inappropriate I get what you're saying, but I still think it's easier/fairer to judge songs than to judge other people's opinions of songs. I don't think it could have been said better. Common ground. I knew we had it in us now I'll just work on the Bread thing with you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GLHawk Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Now, I've said this earlier in the thread, but that's not fair at all. If the song has that "soft-rock feel" and they don't like that feel, then they don't like the song, content be damned. There are lots of country songs with good lyrics that I can't listen to because they have that "TNN-feel". And that's where it stops for me. And that's okay. I understand where you're coming from. We all have our genre shorthand for music we don't like, because there aren't enough hours in the day for all the music out there. I also reflexively turn the dial when I hear something with that "TNN feel." But a great songwriter like Tweedy transcends genre; if you like Wilco, I don't understand why you would reject a Wilco song merely because some surface element of it reminds you of some other song you don't like. When I first heard "Walken," I thought, "Is this a cover? I hate this Southern rock crap." Fortunately, because it was Wilco, I gave it a chance. Turns out, I guess I don't hate Southern rock so much after all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I like your Walken experience as an example. For a lot of people though, combined with certain genres they like, "sounds like" is too much like "is," and even Wilco can't overcome their tastes. "Leave Me" sounds far too much like JC Penney for me to ever like it, period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwilson580 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 "You and I" is certainly a good song. I'm not sure Jeff Tweedy has it in him to write a bad one. (And that definitely includes "Leave Me Like You Found Me" for me.) That said...if you'd heard about Wilco over the years, and wondered whether you might like them...and "You and I" was your first actual exposure to the band...I can see where you might be underwhelmed. "Seriously? This is the cutting edge band I've heard so much about? It doesn't sound like I've missed much...". It's a nice, well-crafted song, but that's about as far as I can go. Kind of generic...and that's not a word I would typically ever associate with Wilco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GLHawk Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I like your Walken experience as an example. For a lot of people though, combined with certain genres they like, "sounds like" is too much like "is," and even Wilco can't overcome their tastes. "Leave Me" sounds far too much like JC Penney for me to ever like it, period. I'm with you on "Leave Me." There's not enough "content" there for me to overlook the relative musical blandness. It's possible that I'm missing something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 "You and I" is certainly a good song. I'm not sure Jeff Tweedy has it in him to write a bad one. (And that definitely includes "Leave Me Like You Found Me" for me.) That said...if you'd heard about Wilco over the years, and wondered whether you might like them...and "You and I" was your first actual exposure to the band...I can see where you might be underwhelmed. "Seriously? This is the cutting edge band I've heard so much about? It doesn't sound like I've missed much...". It's a nice, well-crafted song, but that's about as far as I can go. Kind of generic...and that's not a word I would typically ever associate with Wilco. Unless you were a fan of Tweedy's songwriting from the get go and "You and I" isn't that huge of a leap in term of simplicity of songwriting compared to "Screen Door" or shit "Gun" for that matter. There was a time of course when some people argued the merits of Tweedy's simplicity over the more lyrically obtuse Farrar songs. This whole cutting edge stuff really in my mind only accounts for two albums in his entire catalouge (YHF & AGIB) not counting Loose Fur stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GLHawk Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From an Oct. 14 feature on The Onion AV Club-Chicago, where the interviewer asks Tweedy to respond to various Web comments: Post: "What exactly does Wilco stand for, besides good MOR dad rock? Do they represent a band winding down and becoming less adventurous? It’s very hard to see how whatever they are could be threatening in any fashion." Tweedy: Well, the goal of all art is to be threatening in some fashion. [Laughs.] Obviously we’ve threatened this guy’s view of whatever it is he’s supposed to allow himself to like. If that’s not threatening, I don’t know what is, because he’s obviously being challenged. People really think narrowly when it comes to those types of challenges, and the idea that something has to be aggressive or avant grade, or atonal, even, to be a challenge. I’ve found it to be the exact opposite. We literally put 15 minutes of noise on a record that did not raise an eyebrow, but if you make a pop song with Feist on it, people are going to cry like the sky’s falling. It’s really going to hurt somebody. Our goal is to make some shit that we fucking like to play and feel good about, with the knowledge that that doesn’t hurt anybody. You’re basically doing something that you love to do, and you’re not really hurting anybody. http://www.avclub.com/chicago/articles/what-wilcos-jeff-tweedy-thinks-about-what-you-thin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwilson580 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 One of the things I like the most about this band is that they're not afraid to try different things. And they do pretty damned well with them all. I don't think the existence of a song like "You and I" belies that at all. Recording 12 variations on BBN isn't particularly adventurous. Following BBN with "You and I" on your new album IS. So, again, I think it's a good, worthwhile song. And I don't think it says a damned thing about where this band is, or where it's heading. Other that they're capable of creating excellent songs in a lot of different styles. And that they're comfortable enough with themselves to do it. "You and I" isn't my favorite song, but it's just another reason that Wilco is my favorite band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Would have been more adventerous to reverse the order. I think the most daring thing Wilco ever does is write, record and release exactly what they want, when they want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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