Mass shooting at Miliatry base

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

7 dead, at least 12 injured in shooting at Fort Hood in Texas

02:50 PM CST on Thursday, November 5, 2009

From Staff Reports

FORT HOOD---Seven people are dead and at least 12 people were injured this afternoon in a shooting at Fort Hood, which is located near Killeen, according to KTVT-TV.

 

The post is in lockdown, and CNN reports there may be multiple shooters. It was unknown whether the shooters were civilians or soldiers.

 

Some media were reporting that as many as 15 people may have been injured.

 

The shooting was believed to have taken place around 1:30 p.m., according to CNN. The shooting took place at a solider processing center.

 

From reports, there were two and possibly three shooters.

One of the suspects is reportedly in custody.

[gogo]

A true nightmare. Sounds like they still don't have all the shooters, either.

[Guest Speed Racer]

As my family is wont to say, nothing good can come from this.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Really sad and unbelievable.

[The High Heat]

I learned of this incident here and it scared the shit out of me. I have a nephew and his family are stationed at Ft. Hood. I've checked and found them to be safe. I am thankful my family was spared another tragedy as I had another nephew (they were cousins) who was stationed at Ft. Hood but was killed in Afghanistan last year. It would have been unbearably difficult if something were to happen stateside. I am hopeful the situation is under control and safe.

[cryptique]

For hours they had been reporting that the gunman was dead, but late last night I heard that he's still alive. Way to check your facts, newsmedia.

 

I guess that means that we may one day learn why this happened.

 

Isn't it hard enough to be in the military these days, without worrying about getting shot at a U.S. base?

[Guest Jules]

Interesting how they "rule out" terrorism within hours of the shootings, and it turns out now that it essentially was terrorism.

 

Not that the label matters.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Interesting how they "rule out" terrorism within hours of the shootings, and it turns out now that it essentially was terrorism.

 

Not that the label matters.

 

All mass shootings are "terrorism." Terrorism, with a big capital "T," is a label applied to organized attacks from organizations. This man, though he happened to be Muslim and shot up the U.S. military was not, that we know yet, part of an organized extremist group, and thus a Terrorist. Rather, he was a man who happened to be Muslim and happened to have a screw loose and happened to be disgruntled with the U.S. war efforts. If he had been a devout Lutheran objecting to the war on religious grounds, he would not have been a Terrorist.

[Guest Jules]

All mass shootings are "terrorism." Terrorism, with a big capital "T," is a label applied to organized attacks from organizations. This man, though he happened to be Muslim and shot up the U.S. military was not, that we know yet, part of an organized extremist group, and thus a Terrorist. Rather, he was a man who happened to be Muslim and happened to have a screw loose and happened to be disgruntled with the U.S. war efforts. If he had been a devout Lutheran objecting to the war on religious grounds, he would not have been a Terrorist.

 

OK

[Good Old Neon]

All mass shootings are "terrorism." Terrorism, with a big capital "T," is a label applied to organized attacks from organizations. This man, though he happened to be Muslim and shot up the U.S. military was not, that we know yet, part of an organized extremist group, and thus a Terrorist. Rather, he was a man who happened to be Muslim and happened to have a screw loose and happened to be disgruntled with the U.S. war efforts. If he had been a devout Lutheran objecting to the war on religious grounds, he would not have been a Terrorist.

 

This.

[Sir Stewart]

I don't understand Speed Racer's point. A rose is a rose is a rose. It's terrorism. I'm not going to be careful not to call this terrorism because the fucker happens to be Muslim. That'd be some Catch 22 type of bullshit.

[Guest Jules]

Whatever. He was chanting "Allah, Allah" and all that shit, so he's the same "T" in my book.

[cryptique]

Too early to know for sure exactly what it was, but one thing's for sure: the dead don't care if it was capital-T Terrorism or merely mass murder. Bullets are bullets, regardless if there was political intent involved in the firing of them.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Jesus. He was terrorizing people, yes. He was Muslim and angry at the U.S., yes. But he was not a part of a larger extremist organization. The guy was off his rocker. "Terrorist" to this "war" - is "Jap" to the war of yesteryear - just because he had the characteristics does not mean he was a Terrorist.

 

If he had shot up a 7-Eleven shouting "Praise Allah" would we have called it terrorism? Again, if he were an angry Lutheran?

 

Yes he was a terrorist, and so was the guy who shot up Virginia Tech and so was Timothy McVeigh, but this attack was not an organized attack as part of the War on Terror; he did not have people to report back to, he was not receiving orders, he simply flipped his shit and didn't want to be deployed to fight for a war he didn't support.

 

May we find out otherwise? Perhaps. But unless he was working in concert with an extermist group or known, sworn enemy, I'm not going to call this guy anything except a screwball.

[Guest Speed Racer]

the dead don't care if it was capital-T Terrorism or merely mass murder

 

I agree with you on this point entirely, but I think it's enormously stupid the way we throw around the "T" label here on the side of the living. We already use that word too much, and we have enough sworn enemy organizations to demote this guy to the rank of the lone, crazy screwball.

[Sir Stewart]

Yes he was a terrorist, and so was the guy who shot up Virginia Tech and so was Timothy McVeigh, but

 

You forgot to add a period before 'but' and stop there.

[Winston Legthigh]

I agree with you on this point entirely, but I think it's enormously stupid the way we throw around the "T" label here on the side of the living. We already use that word too much, and we have enough sworn enemy organizations to demote this guy to the rank of the lone, crazy screwball.

What news outlets are using the T word? I just read everything I could about this tragedy on cnn.com, and the word wasn't used once.

[Guest Speed Racer]

You forgot to add a period before 'but' and stop there.

 

No I didn't, but thanks for the suggestion. When a nation is at war, however stupid or awesome or succesful or failing the war might be, applying the chosen label for our enemy for random, isolated incidents is nothing short of inflammatory.

[Guest Jules]

What news outlets are using the T word? I just read everything I could about this tragedy on cnn.com, and the word wasn't used once.

Some of the first reports I heard yesterday all mentioned "officials have ruled out terrorism". That's all I was trying to bring up here. That it seems to be a priority in these instances to say "it's not terrorism", which is interesting to me.

[Sir Stewart]

No I didn't, but thanks for the suggestion. When a nation is at war, however stupid or awesome or succesful or failing the war might be, applying the chosen label for our enemy for random, isolated incidents is nothing short of inflammatory.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on this. I don't see his lack of connection (from what we know right now) to an organized movement as a factor. If he was whiter than Alan Thicke, hadn't spoken to a soul other than his mommy in the past ten years and was chanting "LOLLIPOPS!" as he killed his victims (I don't know if he was chanting anything for the record), I'd call him a capital T terrorist too.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'd call him a capital T terrorist too.

 

I'll stop here, but that's the whole point I'm trying to make. Capital "T" terrorist = Muslim-ish extremists from Very Evil Places we happen to be at war with right now. Regular "terrorists" = lone gunman and people who bomb shit becarse they hate Amurakah, and people who are whiter than Alan Thicke, hadn't spoken to a soul other than his mommy in the past ten years and was chanting "LOLLIPOPS!" as he killed his victims. That's all I was trying to say.

[Sir Stewart]

I realize that was the point you were making. That's where you and I differ.

Anyway - sad, awful story. If the psychiatrists are starting to lose it, what chances do the rest of us have?

[mpolak21]

I guess we'll just disagree on this. I don't see his lack of connection (from what we know right now) to an organized movement as a factor. If he was whiter than Alan Thicke, hadn't spoken to a soul other than his mommy in the past ten years and was chanting "LOLLIPOPS!" as he killed his victims (I don't know if he was chanting anything for the record), I'd call him a capital T terrorist too.

 

"Don't you bring me into this!"

[Guest Speed Racer]

If the psychiatrists are starting to lose it, what chances do the rest of us have?

 

Christ, psychiatrists screened and trained by the flippin' military. On a base. By all accounts, the guy always seemed to be a bit odd.

 

It's so tragic to see someone who has completely lost it, but I'll never, ever understand why they feel compelled to take others with them. It sounded like he was just trying his best to get discharged and snapped.

[cryptique]

I guess we'll just disagree on this. I don't see his lack of connection (from what we know right now) to an organized movement as a factor. If he was whiter than Alan Thicke, hadn't spoken to a soul other than his mommy in the past ten years and was chanting "LOLLIPOPS!" as he killed his victims (I don't know if he was chanting anything for the record), I'd call him a capital T terrorist too.

The term "terrorism" assumes an agenda and/or intent behind the act of violence, usually political in nature.

 

Just because some bastard yells "god is great" before he starts shooting a bunch of people (regardless of the language used or the god referred to) that doesn't automatically make it terrorism. It could just as easily be a random nutjob with an axe to grind, deciding to yell something to make his act of mass murder seem like it's motivated by something other than being an evil douchebag.

 

Sadly, the label matters ... and it's too early to apply one here. Let's wait and find out what we can from the douchebag himself, and let's also not rush to cry "terrorism!" just because someone claims he heard him shout "Allahu Akbar" before shooting. People claimed they heard the Columbine murderers say stuff too, which later turned out to be bullshit, but which helped certain parties advance their own agenda.

 

If we grant this fucker the label "terrorist" too easily, we risk elevating his status among those who aspire to be terrorists themselves, and we let him seize a measure of glory (malevolent though it is) that he would not otherwise enjoy as a mere lunatic mass murderer.