“It’s more fun talking politics with people who agree with you”

[augurus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/us/politics/22palin.html

 

Enthusiasm for Palin, and Echoes of 2008 Divide

By KATE ZERNIKE

Published: November 21, 2009

 

FORT WAYNE, Ind. — When tickets to see Sarah Palin in Michigan ran out, people drove to her appearance here, three hours away.

 

Thousands had lined up overnight, starting nearly 24 hours before she was to begin signing books, camping out in 39-degree weather for a moment with the woman many see as the great conservative hope, a role model, “one of us.”

 

They brought their sleeping bags, their children, homemade chocolate Cheerios bars, and balloons to twist into animal shapes and hats for the crowd. And they brought their anger — about bailouts, jobs and health care.

 

If Sarah Palin was the star attraction, Barack Obama was a constant presence in the clutches of conversation along the lines snaking to meet her.

 

“It may not be this year, it may not be next year, but we’re going to take our country back,” said Sherry Haner, 54, who was standing in the cold on Wednesday outside a mall in Grand Rapids, Mich., hoping to make it into the overflow crowd after failing to get one of the 1,000 bracelets Barnes & Noble had handed out as tickets to the signing.

 

“My goal is to make him a half-term president,” said Chris Schwartz, waiting inside with her daughter and friends, who had pitched tents outside the previous evening to get tickets. “We need to get enough people in Congress to stop him in his tracks. One term is too long.”

 

Ms. Palin’s tour to promote her book, “Going Rogue,” has led to reams of publicity and high-profile television appearances, including interviews with Oprah Winfrey and Barbara Walters. But Ms. Palin, the former Alaska governor, has skipped the big cities authors usually visit in favor of smaller places in areas, not coincidentally, where she and Senator John McCain of Arizona performed well on last year’s Republican presidential ticket.

 

As the tour stopped in the political battleground states of the Midwest, on a campaign-like bus emblazoned with a billboard-size picture of her, it rekindled much of last year’s political rancor.

 

“He isn’t governing, he’s still campaigning,” said Joe Miller, a lab technician who had taken a vacation day to wait in line Thursday at a Meijer superstore in Fort Wayne. “He’s trying to convince us that he’s doing a good job. He hasn’t done anything, except spend money.”

 

Kevin Witzigreuter, 38, a Fort Wayne firefighter waiting in line next to Mr. Miller, chimed in: “And he can’t even make a simple decision about what to do in Afghanistan. We’ve got men and women fighting overseas. Either man up and fight the war to win it, or get out.”

 

Camped out in a mall and in the aisles of the superstore, decorated for Christmas, the fans created a carnival atmosphere, one where intense political discussions were interrupted with shouts of “Dollar burger, anybody?” by a waitress wandering out of Bar Louie.

 

Starbucks employees worked the line with urns of coffee, while fans passed around a life-size cutout of Ms. Palin so people could pose with her. On a table set out to receive gifts for her, someone had left red sweatshirts embroidered: “In God We Trust, and in Sarah, and in De USA.”

 

The crowds included stray disaffected Obama voters, as well as hard-core conspiracy theorists insisting that the president is a Communist who wants to send everyone to re-education camps.

 

But mostly, people were upset about ballooning budget deficits and health care.

 

“I was willing to give Barack Obama the benefit of the doubt, but the spending is out of control,” said Gloria Taylor, 54, as she waited in line in Grand Rapids. “It’s going to be our downfall.”

 

She and her sister-in-law, Robin Pintar, said they had liked Mr. Obama’s campaign promises for their transparency. But they said they were suspicious now, after a government Web site claimed jobs had been created in Congressional districts that do not exist. And they were bothered by health care proposals that seem obscured in thousands of pages of legislation.

 

“You hear snippets,” Ms. Pintar said, “but you don’t know what the big picture is, except the price, and that’s terrifying.”

 

Few people in the lines were reading Ms. Palin’s book, despite having hours to wait.

 

“It’s more fun talking politics with people who agree with you,” said Lucy Vigmostad, who was celebrating her 18th birthday by being first in line in Grand Rapids.

 

Not so much for Wyn Eck, an Obama voter who had come at 2:15 a.m. “for the spectacle.” Ms. Eck was well rewarded, with a balloon sculpture hanging around her neck with a piece of yarn from a new friend knitting in the pop-up chair next to hers.

 

She had tried a truth-squad approach with her new friends: When they repeated the book’s claim that Mr. McCain’s campaign had billed Ms. Palin for $50,000 in legal costs to vet her for the vice-presidential nomination, Ms. Eck pointed out that Mr. McCain had said that was not true. (The bill, he said, was for an ethics investigation involving Ms. Palin that had started before the campaign.)

 

“It got a little icy for a few minutes,” Ms. Eck said.

 

As she signed a book in Grand Rapids, Ms. Palin told one man that Michigan was “a microcosm of America.”

 

The places she visited were also ones where unemployment runs high, and many in the crowds that have turned out to see Ms. Palin said they had lost jobs, knew someone who had, or were working two or three jobs as they looked for one good one.

 

“There’s a lot of talkers out there, that’s what we’re seeing now,” said LeAnn Knudsen, 41, who had waited since 5 a.m. with her daughter, 10. “This hope and change, hope and change, what hope? And if this is change, God help us.”

 

As they wondered whether Ms. Palin would run for president, people here could not say exactly what they thought she would do differently to get the country out of its messes. But, they argued, she has common sense and understands how to run a family and a state. That seemed to be enough.

 

“I’m looking forward to her giving me hope,” said Cheryl Geraty, waiting in the rain in Grand Rapids.

 

That sounded something like Mr. Obama, who had effectively started his own campaign for the White House on a book tour in 2006. No, Ms. Geraty said, shaking her head and smiling, “It’s a different kind of hope.”

 

 

Sometimes, I'm scared by the fact that I live in a country where people associate common sense with Sarah Palin. Some of the quotes in this article just scare me. You may like Sarah Palin, but those horribly vague reasons mentioned above do not stand.

 

Am I just horribly wrong or do I actually not know any of my neighbors? Are some of these people actually,... dumb?

[Good Old Neon]

Some, like their leader, are very dumb.

 

 

I believe that I am [qualified to be president] because I have common sense, and I have, I believe, the values that are reflective of so many other American values. And I believe that what Americans are seeking is not the elitism, the kind of a spinelessness that perhaps is made up for that with some kind of elite Ivy League education and a fact resume that's based on anything but hard work and private sector, free enterprise principles. - Sarah Palin

 

I fucking hate her.

 

I think Matt Taibbi summed up her base, along with a good deal of others, quite correctly when he wrote:

 

 

Here's the thing about Americans. You can send their kids off by the thousands to get their balls blown off in foreign lands for no reason at all, saddle them with billions in debt year after congressional year while they spend their winters cheerfully watching game shows and football, pull the rug out from under their mortgages, and leave them living off their credit cards and their Wal-Mart salaries while you move their jobs to China and Bangalore.

 

And none of it matters, so long as you remember a few months before Election Day to offer them a two-bit caricature culled from some cutting-room-floor episode of Roseanne as part of your presidential ticket. And if she's a good enough likeness of a loudmouthed Middle American archetype, as Sarah Palin is, John Q. Public will drop his giant-size bag of Doritos in gratitude, wipe the Sizzlin' Picante dust from his lips and rush to the booth to vote for her. Not because it makes sense, or because it has a chance of improving his life or anyone else's, but simply because it appeals to the low-humming narcissism that substitutes for his personality, because the image on TV reminds him of the mean, brainless slob he sees in the mirror every morning.

[stooka]

I have found that vocal support for Palin has cooled drastically since the election. My hospital co-workers who once quoted her and rallied around her as the "solution" have all gone back to simply bashing Obama.

 

Hopefully, Palin will squeeze enough out of what's left of her fanclub to live comfortably the rest of her life somewhere out in the wilderness...... way waaaay out in the wilderness!

[LouieB]

Let's hope she makes tons of money and disappears forever...or not. I would be just as happy to see her run against Obama in 2012. I mean we gotta keep things interesting.

 

LouieB

[mountain bed]

It's too bad that article didn't mention the little episode that occurred in Noblesville IN (about 15 miles from my house) Thursday night. The adoring throngs stayed in line for as long as 9 hours in rain and cold temps to get their books signed. They had their wristbands which were supposed to guarantee the signing/15 seconds of face time with Palin.

 

Well, the lovely Sarah cut the lovefest short - WAY too short evidently. Many folks with their wristbands did NOT get to meet Palin, and when she got on her bus and waved buh-bye they got pretty surly, surrounding the bus and chanting "come out!" and so forth. Some folks got so pissed they said they were going to return their copies of the book to Borders the next day, and many also were on record as saying they would NOT support the Palinator anymore.

 

Christ, this bitch can't even organize a book tour. She thinks she could lead this crazy-assed country?

[Edie]

It's too bad that article didn't mention the little episode that occurred in Noblesville IN (about 15 miles from my house) Thursday night. The adoring throngs stayed in line for as long as 9 hours in rain and cold temps to get their books signed. They had their wristbands which were supposed to guarantee the signing/15 seconds of face time with Palin.

 

Let's see... IN has pretty many, but not too many electoral votes. So she only stays about half the allotted time. Sounds right

[watch me fall]

Glad to know the decision about the Afghanistan war is "simple".

[Edie]

I thought the very same thing

 

"Simple" is what got us into Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place.

[bjorn_skurj]

 

Christ, this bitch can't even organize a book tour. She thinks she could lead this crazy-assed country?

 

[Good Old Neon]

Matt (I fucking love you) Taibbi's latest:

 

And Sarah Palin sells copies. She is the country’s first WWE politician — a cartoon combatant who inspires stadiums full of frustrated middle American followers who will cheer for her against whichever villain they trot out, be it Newsweek, Barack Obama, Katie Couric, Steve Schmidt, the Mad Russian, Randy Orton or whoever. Her followers will not know that she is the perfect patsy for our system, designed as it is to channel popular anger in any direction but a useful one, and to keep the public tied up endlessly in pointless media melees over meaningless nonsense (melees of the sort that develop organically around Palin everywhere she goes). Like George W. Bush, even Palin herself doesn’t know this, another reason she’s such a perfect political tool.

 

With Going Rogue, the 2012 reality show has already begun. As brainless political theater, she can’t be topped. It’s just too bad for conservatives that she happens to be unsustainably divisive and, as Newsweek points out, a really good bet to permanently marginalize the Republican party by reducing it to a pissed-off, semi-coherent mob that repulses independent voters on a visceral level. To paraphrase John Doman’s Deputy Ops Rawls character from The Wire, she’s “brilliant — fuckin’ shame it’s gonna end our careers, but still.”

 

The whole thing - http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/

[quarter23cd]

Like George W. Bush, even Palin herself doesn’t know this, another reason she’s such a perfect political tool.

This part here is brilliant.

 

I had an interesting conversation about Palin the other day at a party while watching the OSU/Michigan football game. Don't remember how the topic came up, but this guy went off on a seemingly endless rant about Palin and Glenn Beck and basically the whole nutso/celebrity wing of the GOP. I barely got a word in--which actually made it more fun. Because he kept going on and on about taking OUR party back--stating WE are in the midst of a civil war within the party right now and WE need to leave that sort of infighting to the Democrats and that WE need the kind of unity back that WE had in '94 with the Contract for America, yada yada.

 

The WE got a little unnerving after a while. I don't think it crossed his mind that I might not be a Republican, and indeed he looked at me like I was a space alien when I told him I wasn't. But I wanted to thank him, nonetheless. I don't share his nostalgia for Newt, per se, but its a lot more productive to argue politics when you take the crazy off the table and have an actual discussion.

[Atticus]

frustrated middle American followers

 

surely the way to open the minds of these voters and help them see your point of view is to continue to refer to them as fucking morons and berate every inkling of their lives. sounds like a plan.

[Sir Stewart]

I did not realize 'frustrated' meant that.

[quarter23cd]

Maybe its the Middle American part. Geography-based insults are awesome!

[Good Old Neon]

surely the way to open the minds of these voters and help them see your point of view is to continue to refer to them as fucking morons and berate every inkling of their lives. sounds like a plan.

 

I get your point – but given the depth of some peoples ignorance, and the way in which they sort of revel in it, take pride in it, I don’t think there’s any real possibility that they’ll suddenly see the light, and allow themselves to be “converted.” So rather than attempt to gain their favor, maybe we should just keep them permanently distracted, with game shows and monster truck rallies and other stuff, not unlike how a snake charmer handles the deadly cobra, who, regardless of the amount of petting, will never allow itself to be domesticated.

[Guest Speed Racer]

People who support Palin because they are too dumb to see how stupid she is frighten me; people who support Palin despite the fact that they KNOW how stupid she is frighten me even more.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

It is fun talking politics with people who agree with you. I would guess that it's more fun than reading Palin's book--I agree with Lucy.

[jakobnicholas]

Personally, I like Sarah Palin. But I'd never expect nor want her to be on any future Presidential ticket. I think she'd have ZERO chance of winning.

 

I don't quite understand people's concern and/or worry about what she says or doesn't say or whether people like her or not. She seems like a decent human being and many people respect her for some of the things she believes in....big deal.

 

 

SNL had a funny disaster skit about Palin and Glenn Beck running together in 2012. Pretty clever.

 

 

 

BUT...

 

while many are getting their panties in a bunch over an unelected mother of 4, their elected hero Obama is trying to figure out how to actually run the country.

 

SNL had a brilliantly hilarious sketch to open the show this past Saturday. HA!:

 

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/china-cold-open/1178451/

[Guest Speed Racer]

I don't quite understand people's concern and/or worry about what she says or doesn't say or whether people like her or not. She seems like a decent human being and many people respect her for some of the things she believes in....big deal.

 

Last year, she was, like, on this ballot, you know, to hold the second-in-command office in our nation, and, like, a lot of people thought that was a good idea. I like lots of decent human beings, but I don't want hardly any of them doing anything in the White House except getting a tour.

[mountain bed]

If people respect her belief that the Earth is only 6000 years old then they are seriously misguided. Or batshit crazy.

[Atticus]

I did not realize 'frustrated' meant that.

 

I'm pretty sure you understood that I was referring to the ways in which the "frustrated middle American followers" are treated by certain members of this board and in the articles GON and others post, not defining "frustrated"

 

but I wouldn't want to make assumptions

[Guest Speed Racer]

but I wouldn't want to make assumptions

 

He was responding pretty directly to your quote, also not making any assumptions, right?

 

 

If someone thinks that woman is fit to run any nation, not least of all ours, then what's wrong in thinking that person is having a near-total lapse in judgement? Frankly, I think that kind of reaction is nothing short of responsible.

[jakobnicholas]

Last year, she was, like, on this ballot, you know, to hold the second-in-command office in our nation, and, like, a lot of people thought that was a good idea. I like lots of decent human beings, but I don't want hardly any of them doing anything in the White House except getting a tour.

 

 

A good amount (but big minority) of people thought it was a better idea to have John McCain be president than to have Obama be President. They weren't voting for Palin.

 

Worse than all this.....the ultimate fear-mongerer, Al Gore, actually WON the popular vote in a Presidential election!! THAT'S scary.

 

Stop worrying about Palin folks. You all might worry more about the current President.

 

 

(You all MUST check out the SNL Obama skit.....great stuff.)

[IRememberDBoon]

Personally, I like Sarah Palin. But I'd never expect nor want her to be on any future Presidential ticket. I think she'd have ZERO chance of winning.

 

I don't quite understand people's concern and/or worry about what she says or doesn't say or whether people like her or not. She seems like a decent human being and many people respect her for some of the things she believes in....big deal.

 

 

SNL had a funny disaster skit about Palin and Glenn Beck running together in 2012. Pretty clever.

 

 

 

BUT...

 

while many are getting their panties in a bunch over an unelected mother of 4, their elected hero Obama is trying to figure out how to actually run the country.

 

SNL had a brilliantly hilarious sketch to open the show this past Saturday. HA!:

 

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/china-cold-open/1178451/

 

 

 

 

She is a ignorant hag and screw her because she goes around mouthbreathing that Obama wants to kill old people and suck off terrorists etc. So screw her basically. Shes not just disagreeing with The President politically shes spewing her garbage rhetoric which basically calls The President a murder. So screw her. Not to mention! She quit her friggin job!!!!!!!! She has no place speaking on public policy. I can believe her followers don’t even call her on her quitting. They just ignorantly lap it up and never ask anything. So screw her

[jakobnicholas]

She is a ignorant hag and screw her because she goes around mouthbreathing that Obama wants to kill old people and suck off terrorists etc. So screw her basically. Shes not just disagreeing with The President politically shes spewing her garbage rhetoric which basically calls The President a murder. So screw her. Not to mention! She quit her friggin job!!!!!!!! She has no place speaking on public policy. I can believe her followers don’t even call her on her quitting. They just ignorantly lap it up and never ask anything. So screw her

 

 

Do you feel better?

 

What do you suggest? Should we ban people from going around criticizing our President?