This is my HS alma mater...

ih8music · May 14, 2010

My wife is 1st generation Mexican-American (I'm white). My parents live in AZ. Holidays & vacations are going to suck for as long as this law is in effect (if it ever makes it there).

Simply put, she (rightly) refuses to carry her passport to travel to another state, so she won't be setting foot into AZ as long as this law is in effect. The risk of getting harassed/arrested by a cop because of her brown skin isn't worth it. Same goes for my kids (who mostly look Mexican, especially when they have a summer tan). We're going to suggest to my parents that they visit us this year for the holidays - hopefully that works.

And to all who demonize illegals as the source of crime, etc... that's just incorrect. The vast majority of them are here just to work and try to improve their life & their family's life. The do not come here to commit crimes, they come here to work.

The (failed) war on drugs is what's causing all the crime. Lawmakers should focus on fixing that problem instead of making laws designed to harass and alienate a huge chunk of the population.

May 14, 2010

No, I think it is funny that you cannot find a 'reputable' news source that states Arizona has quite a problem with kidnappings.

How blissful you must be....

The burden isn't on me, because I'm not the one throwing around these claims. God, you really don't burden yourself with too much information, do you?

Oil Can Boyd · May 14, 2010

8 U.S.C. § 1304(e):

(e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties

Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times
carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of
alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him
pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to
comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to
exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.

Well that explains a (very little) piece of the acrinony in this thread. D-Dogg's original post on this said "Federal law requires that legal residents have their papers on them at all times when out in the public ..." In fact it applies to legal aliens not legal residents.

PopTodd · May 14, 2010

My wife is 1st generation Mexican-American (I'm white). My parents live in AZ. Holidays & vacations are going to suck for as long as this law is in effect (if it ever makes it there).

Simply put, she (rightly) refuses to carry her passport to travel to another state, so she won't be setting foot into AZ as long as this law is in effect. The risk of getting harassed/arrested by a cop because of her brown skin isn't worth it. Same goes for my kids (who mostly look Mexican, especially when they have a summer tan). We're going to suggest to my parents that they visit us this year for the holidays - hopefully that works.

And to all who demonize illegals as the source of crime, etc... that's just incorrect. The vast majority of them are here just to work and try to improve their life & their family's life. The do not come here to commit crimes, they come here to work.

The (failed) war on drugs is what's causing all the crime. Lawmakers should focus on fixing that problem instead of making laws designed to harass and alienate a huge chunk of the population.

Post/avatar.

:thumbup

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

My wife is 1st generation Mexican-American (I'm white). My parents live in AZ. Holidays & vacations are going to suck for as long as this law is in effect (if it ever makes it there).

Simply put, she (rightly) refuses to carry her passport to travel to another state, so she won't be setting foot into AZ as long as this law is in effect. The risk of getting harassed/arrested by a cop because of her brown skin isn't worth it. Same goes for my kids (who mostly look Mexican, especially when they have a summer tan). We're going to suggest to my parents that they visit us this year for the holidays - hopefully that works.

And to all who demonize illegals as the source of crime, etc... that's just incorrect. The vast majority of them are here just to work and try to improve their life & their family's life. The do not come here to commit crimes, they come here to work.

The (failed) war on drugs is what's causing all the crime. Lawmakers should focus on fixing that problem instead of making laws designed to harass and alienate a huge chunk of the population.

I agree with most of this. She should not have to carry her passport.

I am not sure the risk of her getting harassed will be high, but there is a chance.

For the record I am not demonizing illegals. I understand the reason why most of them are here. We are a country of immigrants. I don't care if you speak 100 languages and not one word of English.

However the failed war on drugs is causing all the crime, and it increases the illegal immigrant population into the country and with Arizona being a border state even more so. Make drugs legal and ban more than half your violent crime goes poof over night.

The burden isn't on me, because I'm not the one throwing around these claims. God, you really don't burden yourself with too much information, do you?

Says the person that refuses to use Google because of the difficulty filtering all the information.

MattZ · May 14, 2010

If you think about it, we could reduce the crime rate to zero if we made all crimes legal!

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

Well that explains a (very little) piece of the acrinony in this thread. D-Dogg's original post on this said "Federal law requires that legal residents have their papers on them at all times when out in the public ..." In fact it applies to legal aliens not legal residents.

oopps my bad.

But it does not explain very little. It explains that legal aliens by law (Federal and Arizona) should have their documentation.

May 14, 2010

Says the person that refuses to use Google because of the difficulty filtering all the information.

No, I used Google. And I did filter out all the information, not finding anything I thought was reputable. Still waiting on one apology and two citations from you, just in case you forgot.

But it does not explain very little. It explains that legal aliens by law (Federal and Arizona) should have their documentation.

But it does not say that temporary residents should, which is a huge chunk of your assertion.

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

No, I used Google. And I did filter out all the information, not finding anything I thought was reputable. Still waiting on one apology and two citations from you, just in case you forgot.

But it does not say that temporary residents should, which is a huge chunk of your assertion.

HAHA...

What's it like trying to win a losing battle.

Arizona has one of the highest kidnapping rates in the world.

Legal Aliens must have their paperwork on them at all times.

May I have a citation that proves your post that "temporary residents" is "a huge chunk" of my claim.

Edit: BTW you are now boring me.

bjorn_skurj · May 14, 2010

My wife is 1st generation Mexican-American (I'm white). My parents live in AZ. Holidays & vacations are going to suck for as long as this law is in effect (if it ever makes it there).

Simply put, she (rightly) refuses to carry her passport to travel to another state, so she won't be setting foot into AZ as long as this law is in effect. The risk of getting harassed/arrested by a cop because of her brown skin isn't worth it. Same goes for my kids (who mostly look Mexican, especially when they have a summer tan). We're going to suggest to my parents that they visit us this year for the holidays - hopefully that works.

And to all who demonize illegals as the source of crime, etc... that's just incorrect. The vast majority of them are here just to work and try to improve their life & their family's life. The do not come here to commit crimes, they come here to work.

The (failed) war on drugs is what's causing all the crime. Lawmakers should focus on fixing that problem instead of making laws designed to harass and alienate a huge chunk of the population.

:worship

May 14, 2010

Arizona has one of the highest kidnapping rates in the world.

Legal Aliens must have their paperwork on them at all times.

Eagles have flippers and I was born with purple hair. Everyone can play that game, and I'm sorry you're not interested in participating in this discussion fully and with the integrity to back up your claims.

u2roolz · May 14, 2010

Most people are, wanna make out on cam?

I'm not sure what this means or if you know anything about Sexual Napalm.

Are you willing to make out with Sexual Napalm on cam next to the AZ border patrol so that the "illegals" can get by them?

Now I understand your angle.

In Richard Kelly's graphic novel Southland Tales (part 1 of 6/4-6 is in the film) the characters need interstate visas to go from state to state. Ironically, this takes place in the southwest. Also, the state borders in the graphic novel looked exactly like international borders a la Mexico and Canada with armed guards and electric fences. Lastly, the time period is only 2008.

*Look I cited.

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

Eagles have flippers and I was born with purple hair. Everyone can play that game, and I'm sorry you're not interested in participating in this discussion fully and with the integrity to back up your claims.

But see, what I stated is correct. What you state is not.

Arizona - the city of Phoenix in particular has one of the highest rates for kidnappings. That is the truth.

Legal Aliens must have their legal documentation with them at all times. That is the truth.

The students were/are not happy about the canceled trip to Arizona.

These are truths.

If I made up some figure that you agree with, you would not be playing the 'provide citation' game. You would lick it up and tout it off as one of your own because you agree with the figure.

May 14, 2010

Until you actually cite your findings, I won't engage with you further. I'm not asking for the moon; I'm not going uphold your responsibilities in this discussion and mine at the same time. Good luck with that.

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

I'm not sure what this means or if you know anything about Sexual Napalm.

Are you willing to make out with Sexual Napalm on cam next to the AZ border patrol so that the "illegals" can get by them?
Now I understand your angle.

In Richard Kelly's graphic novel Southland Tales (part 1 of 6/4-6 is in the film) the characters need interstate visas to go from state to state. Ironically, this takes place in the southwest.

A) It was a simple question. - I know nothing of Napalm except that s/he believes facts only to be true when they align with his/her beliefs.

2) Depends how much money I can get from the illegals for distracting ICE

C) I hope that interstate visas never become reality. States recognizing D.L. should be enough. However a problem may arise if states start authorizing D.L. to illegals.

3) I like Graphic Novels.

bleedorange · May 14, 2010

I found this article on MSNBC:

Kidnappings cross border into U.S. cities

And ABC News (from a year ago):

Kidnapping Capital of the USA

Good Old Neon · May 14, 2010

But see, what I stated is correct. What you state is not.

Arizona - the city of Phoenix in particular has one of the highest rates for kidnappings. That is the truth.

From the LA Times:

Despite perceptions, crime in border areas, including Arizona, mostly down

Before and after Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the state’s new law to crack down in illegal immigration, we heard the rhetoric about crime and the Grand Canyon State. "We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of drug cartels,” Brewer said last month when she signed SB 1070 into law.

Well, as so often happens with immigration -- not to mention Arizona -- the reality is complicated and nuanced. It’s true that Phoenix has experienced a spike in kidnappings, thanks to the warring cartels. In an eye-popping article last year, our colleague Sam Quinones described the troubling trend in a report from Phoenix:

Arizona has become the new drug gateway into the United States. Roughly half of all marijuana seized along the U.S.-Mexico border was taken on the state's 370-mile border with Mexico.

One result is an epidemic of kidnapping that many residents are barely aware of. Indeed, most every other crime here is down. But police received 366 kidnapping-for-ransom reports last year, and 359 in 2007. Police estimate twice that number go unreported.

But in an equally eye-popping report, another Times staffer wrote recently that “by many measures, Arizona has become safer since illegal immigrants began pouring into the state in the 1990s.” Staff writer Nicholas Riccardi added:

Crime has dropped all across the country since then, but the decrease has been as fast or faster in Arizona. The rate of property crimes in the state, for example, has plummeted 43% since 1995, compared with 30% nationwide.

Then on Friday's front page (remember front pages?) Riccardi reports that crime has dropped along the entire U.S.-Mexico border. This isn’t to say crime doesn’t exist. But in many places it has hopscotched the border area itself, as Riccardi notes:

But a review of crime statistics for the largest communities and interviews with law enforcement officials from Texas to California show that, despite a widespread perception that the violence in Mexico has spread north, U.S. border communities are fairly secure. Some have even become safer.

"It's not spilling over to our side of the border," said William Lansdowne, police chief in San Diego, where violent crime has dropped 8% in the last three years. "We police it really well."

Which all goes to show that, as is so often the case with immigration and politics and crime, perception is a powerful thing.

-- Steve Padilla

Link - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/05/arizona-immigration-crime-border-safer.html

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

Until you actually cite your findings, I won't engage with you further. I'm not asking for the moon; I'm not going uphold your responsibilities in this discussion and mine at the same time. Good luck with that.

One was already provided to you by another poster.

The fact about the kidnappings is easily found on Google, but ignorance is bliss.

May 14, 2010

I'm still interested to see what the comparative surveys are globally; I never doubted that there are a lot of kidnappings in Arizona, but I've heard it contended that in fact Phoenix is not "second only to Mexico City." I'll keep poking around to see if I can't find any information on that.

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

From the LA Times:

Despite perceptions, crime in border areas, including Arizona, mostly down

Before and after Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the state’s new law to crack down in illegal immigration, we heard the rhetoric about crime and the Grand Canyon State. "We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of drug cartels,” Brewer said last month when she signed SB 1070 into law.

Well, as so often happens with immigration -- not to mention Arizona -- the reality is complicated and nuanced. It’s true that Phoenix has experienced a spike in kidnappings, thanks to the warring cartels. In an eye-popping article last year, our colleague Sam Quinones described the troubling trend in a report from Phoenix:

Arizona has become the new drug gateway into the United States. Roughly half of all marijuana seized along the U.S.-Mexico border was taken on the state's 370-mile border with Mexico.

One result is an epidemic of kidnapping that many residents are barely aware of. Indeed, most every other crime here is down. But police received 366 kidnapping-for-ransom reports last year, and 359 in 2007. Police estimate twice that number go unreported.

But in an equally eye-popping report, another Times staffer wrote recently that “by many measures, Arizona has become safer since illegal immigrants began pouring into the state in the 1990s.” Staff writer Nicholas Riccardi added:

Crime has dropped all across the country since then, but the decrease has been as fast or faster in Arizona. The rate of property crimes in the state, for example, has plummeted 43% since 1995, compared with 30% nationwide.

Then on Friday's front page (remember front pages?) Riccardi reports that crime has dropped along the entire U.S.-Mexico border. This isn’t to say crime doesn’t exist. But in many places it has hopscotched the border area itself, as Riccardi notes:

But a review of crime statistics for the largest communities and interviews with law enforcement officials from Texas to California show that, despite a widespread perception that the violence in Mexico has spread north, U.S. border communities are fairly secure. Some have even become safer.

"It's not spilling over to our side of the border," said William Lansdowne, police chief in San Diego, where violent crime has dropped 8% in the last three years. "We police it really well."

Which all goes to show that, as is so often the case with immigration and politics and crime, perception is a powerful thing.

-- Steve Padilla

Link - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/05/arizona-immigration-crime-border-safer.html

Thanks for proving me correct on the kidnappings.

May 14, 2010

Thanks for proving me correct on the kidnappings.

Still waiting for my apology, btw. Also, I never contended you were incorrect, I merely asked you to back up your claim, which is not an unreasonable request.

D-Dogg · May 14, 2010

Still waiting for my apology, btw.

For what thick skin? You want me to apologize to you for you stating that I am wrong when I have been right?

Good Old Neon · May 14, 2010

Thanks for proving me correct on the kidnappings.

You neglected to super-size an important point:

From the LA Times:

Despite perceptions, crime in border areas, including Arizona, mostly down

Before and after Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the state’s new law to crack down in illegal immigration, we heard the rhetoric about crime and the Grand Canyon State. "We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of drug cartels,” Brewer said last month when she signed SB 1070 into law.

Well, as so often happens with immigration -- not to mention Arizona -- the reality is complicated and nuanced. It’s true that Phoenix has experienced a spike in kidnappings, thanks to the warring cartels. In an eye-popping article last year, our colleague Sam Quinones described the troubling trend in a report from Phoenix: