Moe Tucker "teabagger?" WTF!

[LouieB]

Survival of the fittest, fuck everyone else. It works magnificently well in the animal kingdom; should be fine for me and my fellow Americans.

 

Some days I wish we could give Libertarians their own state and let them have at it. None of that evil federal funding for bullshit like welfare, public education, medicare/medicaid for the poor/elderly, social security for those who never made enough to sufficiently save for retirement, etc., etc. All those like-minded folks could move there and enjoy that Utopian life of every man for himself. Hell, I'm sure the ones who survive would be happy.

Brilliant...seriously.

 

Lately I have been thinking that maybe we should just turn the entire country over to the tea-baggers/libertarians and let everone at it for awhile. They want it so badly, fuck it.

 

Regarding D-Dogg's comments about Social Security and other government provided medical care (medicare, medicaid, VA, etc.) nad apparently the other stuff he doesn't approve of (food stamps???). Programs like Social Security are not just for older folks; it also gives aid to the disabled, children who have lost parents, etc. Maybe he should read up on just what supporting those programs do support.

 

I suppose also in the plan to dump all these programs we should fire up the debters prisons, insane asylums, orphanages, children laboring in factories and mines, etc. etc. All of those things seemed to work pretty well for our ancestors. That way we can stick D-Doggs elderly relatives, friends or his children or relatives children into those when they fall on hard times. Meanwhile let let kids starve without WIC or SNAP or any of those other expensive food programs our hard earned taxes pay for. Let them get out on those street corners and beg for their food. They don't need to be in school when they can be out begging or working in some job.

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

Why don't you people go fuck yourselves.

I just did.

[M. (hristine]

hot

[Guest Jules]

Survival of the fittest, fuck everyone else. It works magnificently well in the animal kingdom; should be fine for me and my fellow Americans.

 

Some days I wish we could give Libertarians their own state and let them have at it. None of that evil federal funding for bullshit like welfare, public education, medicare/medicaid for the poor/elderly, social security for those who never made enough to sufficiently save for retirement, etc., etc. All those like-minded folks could move there and enjoy that Utopian life of every man for himself. Hell, I'm sure the ones who survive would be happy.

 

 

You have just described the premise of Atlas Shrugged.

sounds good to me

[D-Dogg]

The Libertarians have me up until this point.

 

The problem lies in that there are aspects of society which are not well served by the free market system; where the profit motive is the incorrect approach. If your argument is that charitable organizations fill the gap, why haven't they already done so? Imagine for a minute that the last two Democratic presidents were not as much interested in infiltrating capitalism with socialism, but answering a real need in our society.

 

Perhaps if the government did not tax so much money more would be given to charity from the private sector. Government takes money, and then gives it to someone else that needs it right? However they only give a % of that money while keeping some for administration costs, red tape bureaucracy, and or theft.

 

The medical/insurance system is broken. When the Libertarians can come up with a system that makes more sense than 30k to have a baby, why don't you give me a call.

 

I don't have an answer to this, but why can we pay for our pets surgery and not our own? Why do hospitals and Medical schools fight to prevent more hospitals and medical schools to be developed in their area?

 

My daughter, a 9th grader in public school, told me last night that her best friend in private school had recieved the HPV vaccine. In the free market this vaccine costs $400. In private scool it is apparently free.

 

Privatize primary schools? Why don't you people go fuck yourselves.

 

Please re-read my posts. I am not Atlas Shrugged, I am not a Tea Party member. Private Schools pale in comparison to public schools regarding several subjects including Science. We need to reorganize and have a new system for public schools, not sure if local property tax takes care of the problem and I think a federal solution to local problems such as schools is also not the answer. Again it would be too much bureaucracy; shit already is..

 

 

How do you KNOW you won't need social security or government insurance. How do you know your kids won't need it?? (How old are they? Just wait until they get older or develop chronic health issues, you MAY feel differently...) No one can see the future, not even you.

 

Pork is non-partisan. Even if YOU don't want it your friends and neighbors not only want it, they expect it. They want it for those pet projects in their districts and will vote out any elected representative who doesn't bring it.

 

I agree with you about pork, I strongly disagree with you about social programs. You just never know. They are there to help folks who need help. Are you against doing this?? It could be you, your family or your friends who ultimately benefit; or maybe you plan to pony up for those folks support, health care, or other essential services when the time comes. Good luck with that.

 

LoueiB

I don't know the future, not at all. However I do not spend my money on luxuries I cannot afford. Instead I am saving a large % of each check. I pay for things with cash and not credit. All I said is I am doing everything possible to prevent me reliance on the government.

Absolutely pork is non-partisan, however my friends do not want it. There are examples around this country where officials get voted in time and time again for saying no. However Pork is still distributed to their districts and from that point they decide what to do with it.

 

Social Programs have excellent intentions, however the cost and unintended negative consequences are becoming more of a problem. The welfare state has risen, the % of poor and lower class has risen, we should consider other alternatives rather than pouring more money into the failed system. I KNOW most everyone can do better for themselves. I have faith in people to do that.

 

LouieB in regards to your second to last sentence, we already do.

 

Brilliant...seriously.

 

Lately I have been thinking that maybe we should just turn the entire country over to the tea-baggers/libertarians and let everone at it for awhile. They want it so badly, fuck it.

 

Regarding D-Dogg's comments about Social Security and other government provided medical care (medicare, medicaid, VA, etc.) nad apparently the other stuff he doesn't approve of (food stamps???). Programs like Social Security are not just for older folks; it also gives aid to the disabled, children who have lost parents, etc. Maybe he should read up on just what supporting those programs do support.

 

I suppose also in the plan to dump all these programs we should fire up the debters prisons, insane asylums, orphanages, children laboring in factories and mines, etc. etc. All of those things seemed to work pretty well for our ancestors. That way we can stick D-Doggs elderly relatives, friends or his children or relatives children into those when they fall on hard times. Meanwhile let let kids starve without WIC or SNAP or any of those other expensive food programs our hard earned taxes pay for. Let them get out on those street corners and beg for their food. They don't need to be in school when they can be out begging or working in some job.

 

LouieB

 

I live in an area where many people use food stamps - most everyone on food stamps has comcast cable and smokes a pack of cigarettes a day. Many are on bowling leagues and drink. Others that are on WIC enjoy the same luxuries. The intention is whole hearted, however many of the people take advantage of the situation. It is a fine line, I understand that. I don't agree with not allowing people of low income to enjoy their leisure, however it comes at the cost of others.

 

LouieB, why the elderly, friends and children comment?

And please do not assume you know where I stand economically.

[ikol]

The problem lies in that there are aspects of society which are not well served by the free market system; where the profit motive is the incorrect approach. If your argument is that charitable organizations fill the gap, why haven't they already done so? Imagine for a minute that the last two Democratic presidents were not as much interested in infiltrating capitalism with socialism, but answering a real need in our society.

 

When is the motive to get elected the correct approach?

 

The medical/insurance system is broken. When the Libertarians can come up with a system that makes more sense than 30k to have a baby, why don't you give me a call.

 

It's possible to have a baby for free. If you want to be screened for every infectious disease known to man, have 3-D ultrasound pictures of your fetus, test for congenital malformations, etc. and have an OB doc terrified of getting sued do an unnecessary C-section, then it's gonna cost some money. Even if the government picks up the tab, it's still gonna cost $30K.

 

How do you KNOW you won't need social security or government insurance. How do you know your kids won't need it?? (How old are they? Just wait until they get older or develop chronic health issues, you MAY feel differently...) No one can see the future, not even you.

 

I agree with you about pork, I strongly disagree with you about social programs. You just never know. They are there to help folks who need help. Are you against doing this?? It could be you, your family or your friends who ultimately benefit; or maybe you plan to pony up for those folks support, health care, or other essential services when the time comes. Good luck with that.

 

I can't say whether any given individual will need any of those services, but I'm pretty confident that not every American over 65 requires them. And the Social Security disability program is massively abused.

[Reni]

I just did.

 

Don't let Christine O'Donnell find out.

[Tweedling]

Don't let Christine O'Donnell find out.

Holy Shit. Kate? Is that you!?

She doesn't scare me.

[LouieB]

 

And please do not assume you know where I stand economically.

I don't know where you stand economically, but clearly I know where you stand politically.

 

LouieB

[ikol]

Don't let Christine O'Donnell find out.

 

[Reni]

Holy Shit. Kate? Is that you!?

She doesn't scare me.

 

 

It's me.

 

and....she should!

 

I found my way over here when Graham told me that the Moe Tucker interview had been posted by VCer and not even someone from St. Louis! My friend Mike is the one who interviewed her (albeit via email) and he is just amazed that it's been picked up by news sites all over the country. It's pretty crazy, but then again, so is Moe. hehe

[Reni]

 

And an aside to D-Dogg....no matter how much you take care of yourself and your family you and your family still use plenty of government services including roads, schools, etc. etc. We all need basic governmantal services. The minute something goes wrong with health and safety issues people go nuts that the government should have been overseeing things better, whether it is because some crimial assalted you, some insane person killed a relative, you got sick on food or medications or some product, the schools suck, a plane crashes, etc, etc. etc. Or heaven forbid gay people want to get married and have protection or a woman decides to choose to end a pregnancy, then of course government really really needs to control that.....good gawd y'all.....

 

LouieB

 

We should just go to a system like the one where the guy's house burned down in TN because he forgot to pay his extra fee. The new right wing mantra should be Burn Baby Burn, not Drill Baby Drill!

[Oil Can Boyd]

the Moe Tucker interview had been posted by VCer and not even someone from St. Louis!

Not only am I not from St. Louis, I've never even been there!

[LouieB]

We should just go to a system like the one where the guy's house burned down in TN because he forgot to pay his extra fee. The new right wing mantra should be Burn Baby Burn, not Drill Baby Drill!

Hey Kate...long tine no see....

 

It takes a teabagger like D-Dogg to bring you back. My thought exactly, except burning houses happens less than chronically ill, children (including adult children without jobs), older folks who need medical care, unemployed adults who need health care, food, and other essentials, etc.

 

The rock bottom cynical me thinks we should just roll all of these programs back and then even the right wingers will be (quite literally) dying for them to be brought back.

 

Even ikols comment about SSDI being fraught with fraud is interesting considering Social Security denies everyone for these benefits (I have an old friend who is a lawyer who works for SS and he works appeals)and people take years getting them if they can. It is ironic that fraud from government entitlement programs gets so much play (and trust me I see it every day so it is disturbing) but fraud and corruption by corporations, which actually is a much larger problem and involved much richer people doesn't seem to bother these folks at all. Clearly there is lots of room for rolling back fraud and waste in government programs; folks and both the right and left are concerned about this, but we blindly let corporations not pay taxes, engage in other unfair and illegal practices, but hey, that's perfectly okay. Meanwhile the only group that can curtail fraud and waste in either the public or private sector are (gasp) government workers (like me). As soon as shit goes wrong people wonder how come the government didn't step in and do something (such as the recent egg recall which was not done by the industry it was done by....ta da....the government), but without govenment oversight health and safety and fraudulant behavoir would be rampant (and eggs with samonilla would still be on the market.)

 

LouieB

[Guest Jules]

It takes a teabagger like D-Dogg to bring you back.

What is a teabagger? I don't think D-Dogg is one.

[LouieB]

What is a teabagger? I don't think D-Dogg is one.

Maybe not, but he appears to be supporting the teapartiers positions that goverment shouldn't do for people what people should be doing for themselves, whatever that means. In a perfect world everyone could do everything for themselves, but the real world just isn't like that. I suppose it is in whatever world he inhabits where all families are intact, working, educated, not disabled, and are in communities where private charities and businesses take care of all members of the community no matter what. Some parts of the world are like that I suppose.

 

(Teabagger is a nickname that is no longer used...sorry...but it is funny.)

 

LouieB

[ih8music]

(Teabagger is a nickname that is no longer used...sorry...but it is funny.)

 

I'll stop calling them "Teabaggers" when they stop calling the healthcare reform act "Obamacare"

[Good Old Neon]

I'll stop calling them "Teabaggers" when they stop calling the healthcare reform act "Obamacare"

 

I prefer the less offensive "fuckheads"

[Reni]

Maybe not, but he appears to be supporting the teapartiers positions that goverment shouldn't do for people what people should be doing for themselves, whatever that means. In a perfect world everyone could do everything for themselves, but the real world just isn't like that. I suppose it is in whatever world he inhabits where all families are intact, working, educated, not disabled, and are in communities where private charities and businesses take care of all members of the community no matter what. Some parts of the world are like that I suppose.

 

(Teabagger is a nickname that is no longer used...sorry...but it is funny.)

 

LouieB

 

Yup! As human beings, we are as much individuals as we are interdependent. No one can do it on their own. This is true from our basic psycho-social emotional/developmental needs to the material sustenance in which our lives are dependent on. This is where this Tea Party, uber-conservative Randian approach totally fails. As with most conservative viewpoints, they to divide the world into dualistic measures of thinking, when reality is a lot more complex, and the many ills of society are intertwined and intersected. Where I see conservative thinking ultimately fail is along this line. It's too simplistic and disregards nuance, complexity and paradox.

 

"Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. Now, when I say question the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated." --MLK, Jr.

 

Amen.

[ikol]

Even ikols comment about SSDI being fraught with fraud is interesting considering Social Security denies everyone for these benefits (I have an old friend who is a lawyer who works for SS and he works appeals)and people take years getting them if they can.

 

Considering the decision is made by bureaucrats instead of the doctor that actually evaluates the applicant, it makes sense that errors are made both ways on deciding who gets disability.

 

It is ironic that fraud from government entitlement programs gets so much play (and trust me I see it every day so it is disturbing) but fraud and corruption by corporations, which actually is a much larger problem and involved much richer people doesn't seem to bother these folks at all.

 

It's probably because when fraudulent corporations are discovered, people go to prison, whereas abuse of entitlements is practically built into the system.

 

I prefer the less offensive "fuckheads"

 

It does have a better ring to it than "Obamacare."

[ikol]

Yup! As human beings, we are as much individuals as we are interdependent. No one can do it on their own. This is true from our basic psycho-social emotional/developmental needs to the material sustenance in which our lives are dependent on. This is where this Tea Party, uber-conservative Randian approach totally fails. As with most conservative viewpoints, they to divide the world into dualistic measures of thinking, when reality is a lot more complex, and the many ills of society are intertwined and intersected. Where I see conservative thinking ultimately fail is along this line. It's too simplistic and disregards nuance, complexity and paradox.

 

You might be correct about a purely Randian viewpoint, but you fail to discern the complexity and nuance of a healthy rightwing nutjob mindset. We are indeed social animals that are dependent on each other, but families and local communities form the basis of this social structure rather than the federal government (which merely exists to provide a basic infrastructure and protect us from threats to our security and rights).

[uncool2pillow]

Well said, Ikol. I always scoffed at Hillary Clinton writing a book called "It Takes a Village" and then filling that book with lots of big government suggestions to be the "village". I grew up in a neighborhood where all the parents knew all the kids and were allowed to and encouraged to discipline them when necessary. That was my village.

[ih8music]

It's probably because when fraudulent corporations are discovered, people go to prison, whereas abuse of entitlements is practically built into the system.

http://www.bloomberg...-loopholes.html

 

I would argue that this form of corporate fraud is very much built into the system as well, but nobody is going to jail for it because it's all perfectly legal.

[ikol]

http://www.bloomberg...-loopholes.html

 

I would argue that this form of corporate fraud is very much built into the system as well, but nobody is going to jail for it because it's all perfectly legal.

 

It's very easy to find loopholes when the tax code is as complicated as it is in this country. I am definitely in favor of a simplified tax code.

[M. (hristine]

(which merely exists to provide a basic infrastructure and protect us from threats to our security and rights).

Where do national parks, public libraries and public schools fall in?