Wisconsin is the New Egypt

[Sparky speaks]

As far as manufacturing industries go, forecasts for 2011 are very strong and getting stronger. People are being hired by the thousands. Look around.

 

I didn't know you lived in China...The deindustrialization of America has been going on for decades. They estimate the real unemployment rate at between 22% and 25%. Businesses are shutting down every day. Where are these thousands of jobs? Don't give me the administrations fake numbers. If Bush was still president, no one would believe any figures his labor secretary would put out. The country is collapsing right in front of your eyes. Here's a few bits of info that might enlighten you. There is one good thing about the destruction of industry in this country. Some of the abandoned mills are being turned into art galleries where bands like Wilco can throw three day festivals for us to get our minds off of the problems we are facing.

 

Jobless Claims in the U.S. Rose 26,000 Last Week to 397,000

 

My link

 

From another article...

 

But if you look deeper into the numbers, as John Williams does at Shadowstats.com, you don't see the turnaround picture. In fact, just the opposite is going on. In his latest report, Williams estimates the government is routinely overstating job growth by "230,000 jobs" a month. Using simple math, 192,000 created jobs (according to BLS) subtracted from 230,000 overstated jobs gives you an actual net loss of 38,000 jobs. I called Williams to check my analysis, and he told me it is not that simple because the government's estimations are "the worst in modern economic history." Williams says unemployment numbers are "openly misleading" and virtually "worthless."

 

In an interview yesterday from his San Francisco office, Williams told me when it comes to calculating unemployment numbers, the BLS is "flying blind." He admitted, "It is hard to put an exact number on the actual job losses last month, but we likely lost jobs - not gained them." He added, "The job losses could be as high as 30,000 for last month."

My link

 

 

19 Facts About The Deindustrialization Of America That Will Blow Your Mind

 

The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind....

 

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001.

 

#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.

 

#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.

 

#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.

 

#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.

 

#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.

 

#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.

 

#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.

 

#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.

 

#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new "global" manufacturing strategy.

 

#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.

 

#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.

#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

 

#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.

#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.

 

#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.

 

#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.

 

#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.

#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.

 

My link

[uncool2pillow]

Rich people don't create jobs; economic demand creates jobs. Business only add new people if demand for their product/service increases beyond their current capacity. Aside from their personal staff (housekeepers, etc.) rich people don't create jobs at all.

Good businesspeople (read, "smart rich people") create economic demand through creating and marketing desirable products. Ergo, rich people create jobs.

[Sparky speaks]

Good businesspeople (read, "smart rich people") create economic demand through creating and marketing desirable products. Ergo, rich people create jobs.

 

Yeah, but they are doing it overseas, not in the United States...

[cryptique]

Also, the wealthy are the one's who create jobs. Let them keep more of their own money = more jobs.

This is an overly simplistic summation of the way things might work if the wealthy actually put their money into creating more jobs. But mostly they don't -- they "keep more of their own money." As in, they don't spend it.

 

Money flows uphill from the poor to the rich, and when it gets to the top of the hill it stops. The consumer spending that drives the economy comes from the middle class, but the middle class is shrinking rapidly as the jobs go away, and the wealthy are not doing much to stem that tide.

 

The income disparity in this country isn't just stunning, it's profane. And it's gathering steam, as more and more wealth is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.

 

There is one dynamic that the super-wealthy can't control, however -- the fact that they're vastly outnumbered. Placating the masses with Fox News propaganda and shitty TV shows can't work forever, and when the lower classes have finally eaten all the shit they can eat, there will be revolution, and there will be redistribution of all that wealth.

 

I used to hope that I would live out my life before we get to that point, but now I really can't wait to see it.

[Guest Speed Racer]

So if they are not going to create jobs why give them tax cuts?

 

If you don't, they'll move to a county/state/country that will. Teachers aren't going to, and if they do, you can replace then with a new model.

 

If the manufacturing forecasts are looking so good, why would they need tax breaks and incentives?

 

See above.

 

Why aren't they hiring? They should have more then enough money to accommodate that.

 

Hiring isn't about money, necessarily. At our small business, we have high points where we would love to have another person on staff, but 17 months later we're all scrambling for work. Drought, monsoon, drought. Most businesses (of any kind) would rather staff to 80% capacity (pulled that number out of the sky, fyi) and not lay people off every 17 months than staff at 100% all the time - with all the cuts and hiring that come with it.

 

Also: A Wisconsin based wagon company can be producing 3x the wagons they produced in 2000, but new equipment and piecemeal manufacturing of some parts aboard (say, all the wheels) produces a product that was finalized in Wisconsin but 30% of it was actually manufactured abroad. If the wheels were taking up 60% of their manufacturing resources, they can outsource that, produce a "U.S.-made" wagon, and hire no one because of their awesome streamlining.

 

I ask again, why is a tax increase of 7-10% on 300K people in Wisconsin better then a tax raise on corporations?

 

See above. It's easy to pick on teachers because they can't really do anything about it. Business can move, cutting jobs for thousands of people.

 

I'm not saying any of this is necessarily "right," in the hokey sense of the word, but these are my thoughts on why this happened.

 

Oh, and because it's about politics, not money. No one outside of Wisconsin (and probably half the people in Wisconsin, especially judging by 2010 voter turnout) knew who Walker was before this went down. He's a household name now, nationally. Ta-da! Walker, Wisconsin Union-Buster.

[Guest Jules]

Yeah, but they are doing it overseas, not in the United States...

And whose fault is that?

 

Actually, it's happening in both places. Do some reading. No where near levels of a few years ago, but definitely improving from 2008-2010. Heavy truck, contruction equipment, AG, even automotive (Ford Chicago assembly plant as one example). Big hiring and expansion going on.

[ih8music]

Bravo, Bernie.

 

http://www.rawstory....-slash-deficit/

 

WASHINGTON – As Democrats and Republicans battle over how much spending should be cut to bridge the budget shortfall, one senator is focusing on the other side of the equation: revenues.

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) on Thursday afternoon introduced a bill (pdf) that would establish a surtax on millionaires and strip tax deductions for oil companies -- a proposal he claims would cut the deficit by about $50 billion.

 

The Emergency Deficit Reduction Act would accomplish this by raising taxes by 5.4 percent on annual income over $1 million.

 

Congress has yet to pass a budget to fund the government for fiscal 2011, approving three continuing resolutions to avoid a shutdown. The latest expires March 18. The Senate rejected the Democratic and Republican proposals Wednesday.

 

A NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found late February that 81 percent of Americans believe a surtax on millionaires is an acceptable way to close the budget shortfall.

 

Yet in Congress, the quest is a lonely one. Though leaders of both parties admit the deficit is a pressing problem, none have advanced tax increases to trim the gap. And the outspoken Vermonter isn't pulling any punches.

 

Republicans, Sanders fumed, want to balance the budget "solely on the backs of the middle class and some of the most vulnerable people in this country." Democrats, he added, aren't "serious" about deficits if they ignore revenues.

No chance in hell it'll pass, of course.

 

I'd be fine doing away with the extra tax on millionaires and just concentrate on stripping the oil companies of their tax breaks. There's absolutely no reason why the government needs to subsidize the most profitable industry on the planet.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Yeah, but they are doing it overseas, not in the United States...

 

I wouldn't have a job if that were the case, and believe me, I'm not short on work.

[uncool2pillow]

And whose fault is that?

 

Actually, it's happening in both places. Do some reading. No where near levels of a few years ago, but definitely improving from 2008-2010. Heavy truck, contruction equipment, AG, even automotive (Ford Chicago assembly plant as one example). Big hiring and expansion going on.

I don't see this as anyone's fault. Just the sad economic reality. American labor can't possibly compete with foreign labor and maintain a reasonable standard of living. Laws prohibiting moving jobs overseas would ultimately be worked around, so many (Jules makes a good point) of the manufacturing jobs leave. The best solution is to do exactly the opposite of what's happening in Wisconsin. We need to ensure we have the best educated workforce in the nation. That's not cheap.

 

The uncomfortable part of this for me as a teacher is to admit that my field (social studies) isn't as competitive as math and science. A brilliant mathematician or scientist can make a lot more in the private sector than a "historian". Not all teachers are equally valuable. This is NOT to say that the arts, social studies, PE, etc. aren't important, but to draw the best minds into the most important fields, we need to pay them more.

 

We also need to allow the highest flying students opportunities to truly excel from the youngest ages. Grouping students by age, regardless of ability is absolute nonsense. Self-esteem is important, I understand this. I have twins. My girl excels at school much more than my boy, and sometimes that's upsetting to him, but the solution is not to hold my daughter back. Those against tracking can argue all they want about "differentiating" (sorry to start throwing educational jargon into the thread), but it's incredibly difficult for a teacher to manage an effective classroom when there are some kids reading at a 2nd grade level and others at a post HS level in the same classroom.

 

Imagine classrooms where highly motivated kids are taught by highly motivated, well-trained, well compensated, brilliant teachers. Where others are working on building up their basic skills in a creative (not boring, rote, drill & practice) curriculum. Students graduating from a system like this wouldn't need to worry about the loss of manufacturing jobs, they would be creating jobs by innovating science, industry, business, government, etc.

 

The problem is no one, not even me really, wants to pony up and pay for this kind of system.

[Sparky speaks]

I've been reding and what I've read is that jobs are not being added in any substantial amount to change the trends of increased unemployment. They are playing with the numbers and you are falling for it. You can believe what you want to believe, but things are not getting better for those out of work...

 

Behind the February 2011 Employment Numbers

 

On average, the U.S. economy needs to generate 120,000 new jobs each month to absorb all the new entrants. Since the latest recession began, the number of people without jobs grew to more than 8 million with another 8 plus million either giving up or working part time. If the economy generated 320,000 jobs per month, it would take more than 6 years to get back to a "full employment" level. This is why so many people believe the economy will struggle for years to come...

 

The problem is we do not know how many new jobs there really are, other than the BLS is underestimating the number. On the other hand, I do not believe the number of new jobs is anywhere near the number necessary to reduce real unemployment and absorb the new entrants to the work force. Most likely the United States is generated somewhere in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 jobs per month. More than in the past, but not enough jobs to address the chronic unemployment problem. Moreover, each month new entrants join the work force.

 

Speaking of the unemployment number, the headline tells us unemployment fell to 9.0%. What we are not told is the number of people in the work force fell causing the drop in the unemployment number. Fewer people in the work force is not a positive sign for the economy.

 

For January 2011, the total civilian labor force was 153,186,000 down from 153,690,000 in December 2010. Essentially, 504,000 people either retired or quit the work force. In November 2010, the total civilian labor force was 153,950,000. The drop in the unemployment rate for the last two months is due primarily to the drop in the number of people counted as in the labor force. Removing more than 500,000 people from the work force allows the number of unemployed to fall as well. For January, the number of unemployed fell by 622,000. Take away the 504,000 from that number and the number of unemployed drops by only 118,000.

 

Had the number of people in the work force remained at the December 2010 level, the unemployment rate for January would remain at 9.4%. Once again, the details in the statistics tell a different story than the headlines.

 

My link

 

Who's hiring and who's firing?

 

My link

[Winston Legthigh]

The problem is no one, not even me really, wants to pony up and pay for this kind of system.

No one? Sure there is. It's called private education. It's called private tutoring. Certainly enough people pony up for this kind of system or else it would cease to exist.

[Guest Speed Racer]

No one? Sure there is. It's called private education. It's called private tutoring. Certainly enough people pony up for this kind of system or else it would cease to exist.

 

This is cute, but at the end of the day education isn't just a personal decision; I think that's one of the saddest things about this whole debacle. I don't ever plan on having children, but it's important to me that our nation's public school systems produce smart children. Education is a national commodity, and is not at all being treated as such by taxpayers or elected officials.

 

There are thousands of openings nationwide for scientists, mathematicians, engineers and other technological fields (STEM fields). The openings exist because there is a huge shortage of qualified individuals to fill the positions.

 

Private education produces a small amount of of graduates overall, and produces an even smaller percentage of actually well-educated (or high-performing, if you rather) children. Not every kid who gets put through the private school or private tutoring machine gets spat out a a whiz kid.

[Doug C]

Thanks, Nap. You gave me a good feeling inside and Jules, no double entendre was intended.

[Winston Legthigh]

There are thousands of openings nationwide for scientists, mathematicians, engineers and other technological fields (STEM fields). The openings exist because there is a huge shortage of qualified individuals to fill the positions.

 

Private education produces a small amount of of graduates overall, and produces an even smaller percentage of actually well-educated (or high-performing, if you rather) children. Not every kid who gets put through the private school or private tutoring machine gets spat out a a whiz kid.

If you have those job listings, please forward. I have a friend with a PhD in Physics who can't find work.

 

Not every kid who gets put through the public school machine gets spat out a dumbshit either.

 

It's noble to want a top-quality education for everyone, but it reminds me of Castro bragging that even Cuban prostitutes are well educated.

[uncool2pillow]

No one? Sure there is. It's called private education. It's called private tutoring. Certainly enough people pony up for this kind of system or else it would cease to exist.

I am talking about educating our entire nation, not those of just people wealthy enough to afford private education. I have no problem w/ private education, and am even open to the idea of vouchers just so long as any school receiving money through vouchers is held to all the same expectations and regulations as public schools are.

 

Are there private schools paying six figure salaries to math and science teachers who might otherwise be working for google or dell? No. Private school succeed, to a large degree, because parents choose to send their kids to them. Even Catholic schools in rough neighborhoods whose students are on scholarships benefit because the simple act of choosing a school means that those families are more interested in the education of their child than many public school kids.

 

In my own experience, tutors don't do much that the parents who can afford to pay them could do, if the parents were willing to invest the time with their children. That's a gross generalization, but I think it's fairly true.

 

None of this has to do with the fact that it's absolutely irrational to pay P.E. and social studies teachers on the same scale as math and science teachers when we want to draw the best minds to those fields and there are immeasurably better available jobs (and not just in terms of pay... When's the last time a google employee had to answer emails or meet with whiny parents whose children have Cs instead of As) to people who excel in those fields.

[Guest Speed Racer]

If you have those job listings, please forward. I have a friend with a PhD in Physics who can't find work.

 

If they're not looking in academia and not theoretical work, the openings should be pretty easy to find. Seriously.

 

Not every kid who gets put through the public school machine gets spat out a dumbshit either.

 

I don't know that anyone in this thread said that.

 

It's noble to want a top-quality education for everyone, but it reminds me of Castro bragging that even Cuban prostitutes are well educated.

 

Funny, it reminds me of the fact that I'm filling professional STEM jobs with people from other countries.

[Guest Jules]

They are playing with the numbers and you are falling for it. You can believe what you want to believe, but things are not getting better for those out of work...

Who's playing with what? I'm not falling for anything. I made reference to specific industries that I happen to know first hand are hiring in good numbers right now. That doesn't "make it better for those out of work" (whatever that means), but it's a good sign for those industries.

[Winston Legthigh]

Funny, it reminds me of the fact that I'm filling professional STEM jobs with people from other countries.

Is that due to a lack of qualified US applicants, or a lack of interested qualified US applicants?

[Guest Speed Racer]

Lack of qualified candidates. They either don't have the degrees or the experience, or both.

[Winston Legthigh]

Lack of qualified candidates. They either don't have the degrees or the experience, or both.

Or the job/pay isn't appealing to those who are qualified.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Or the job/pay isn't appealing to those who are qualified.

 

If pay was the issue, it costs about $40,000+ to keep a foreign-born employee long term, depending on their situation. And minimum pay for foreign employees is actually regulated to protect them from being underpaid based on the regional average for their industry - assessed by county. HR and recruiting are wise to that. No one hires foreign-born professionals because they want to lowball costs, believe me. Much easier to raise the pay for a U.S. professional.

[Sparky speaks]

This says it all. Until this is reversed noting anyone is arguing about here will ever change. I think they call it fascism...

 

Corporate Coup d'Etat In Wisconsin

By Stephen Lendman

 

Ralph Nader calls Washington corporate-occupied territory - "every department agency controlled by the overwhelming presence of corporate lobbyists, corporate executives in high government positions, turning the government against its own people."

 

Nader also said corporations don't just control government, they are the government. "The corporation IS the government!" They bought and own it at the federal, state and local levels, running it like their private fiefdom at the expense of working Americans, systematically stripping them of hard-won rights.

 

They have 10,000 Political Action Committees and 35,000 full-time lobbyists. "Just imagine," says Nader, "even the Labor Department is not controlled by trade unions - it's (owned and) controlled by corporations."

 

My link

[Good Old Neon]

[Moss]

Maybe the revolution is starting:

 

Wisconsin Firefighters shut down bank that funded Walker

 

Bank shut down

[Guest Speed Racer]

That would be awesome if M&I only served the GOP and the firefighters. Hope no one else - you know, like a school teacher - needed to use the bank that day.