Wisconsin is the New Egypt

[Sparky speaks]

Become A Teacher? 10 Examples That Show Why Becoming A Teacher Is A Dead End In This Economy

 

Today budget cutters are on the rampage from coast to coast and often one of their first targets is public school teachers. What we have witnessed recently in Wisconsin is just one example of this. The truth is that you do not want to become a teacher if you want to have financial security in America today. Teacher salaries are being slashed from sea to shining sea. But to a certain extent the teachers that are having their wages cut are the fortunate ones. There are thousands upon thousands of teachers that have already been laid off, and there are tens of thousands more that are about to be laid off. It is absolutely brutal out there right now. So if you are thinking about becoming a teacher you might want to think twice. Not that there are a whole lot of other jobs that are more secure right now. The truth is that there is no such thing as a "safe job" in America today.

 

It is very unfortunate that what is going on right now is going to scare so many young people away from becoming a teacher because the next generation could definitely use some quality teachers.

 

But the truth is that it is getting really hard to honestly recommend that anyone become a teacher at this point. Just consider some of the following news stories that we have seen around the nation recently....

 

#1 In Providence, Rhode Island the school district plans to send out dismissal notices to every single one of its 1,926 teachers.

 

#2 Michigan has just approved a plan to shut down nearly half of the public schools in Detroit. Under the plan, 70 schools will be closed and 72 will continue operating.

 

#3 In New Jersey, Governor Chris Christie has laid off thousands of teachers and he cut a billion dollars from the state education budget.

 

#4 Bills in Wisconsin, Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana and Idaho would either significantly alter or completely take away the collective bargaining rights of public school teachers.

 

#5 The eyes of the whole country are on Wisconsin right now. Teachers there are very alarmed about the $900 million in cuts to school funding over the next two years that are being proposed.

 

#6 Clay Robison, a spokesman for the Texas State Teachers Association, recently said that his organization is projecting that 100,000 school employees in the state of Texas could lose their jobs.

 

#7 The current plan is for more than 4,500 New York City school teachers to be laid off after this current school years ends. This will be the most significant teacher layoffs in New York since the 1970s.

 

#8 In Los Angeles, more than 5,000 teachers will be receiving preliminary layoff notices due to budget cuts.

 

#9 Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval is being deeply criticized for the teacher pay cuts that he is proposing.

 

#10 StudentsFirst.org is projecting that 161,000 teachers across the United States are in danger of losing their jobs this year alone.

 

My link

[LouieB]

It wasn't so long ago that there was going to be a teacher shortage. Of course we also heard that there were going to be shortages in all sorts of professions and trades. The day will come when there will be shortages again, but I have not heard anyone make any prediction on that.

 

LouieB

[Sparky speaks]

It wasn't so long ago that there was going to be a teacher shortage. Of course we also heard that there were going to be shortages in all sorts of professions and trades. The day will come when there will be shortages again, but I have not heard anyone make any prediction on that.

 

LouieB

 

Louie,

 

Well, I can tell you that many teachers who are close to or are at retirement age, or have the service time in, are not retiring. The price of picking up medical insurance for oneself and your spouse, if you have one, takes a big chunk out of your pension if you are not old enough to qualify for medicaid yet. Most, also see a day when their pension funds will be raided by state governments looking to plug budget shortfalls so they are willing to put retirement off. I still have a few years to go so I don't think about it much, but I have learned a lot from older colleagues. Some of the newer teachers(and I stress some) and student teachers that I have come in contact with are very poor in subject content knowledge. They might be full of piss and vinegar but try to talk to them about FDR's New Deal, or the Constitution for that matter, and you wonder how they got their degrees. They know all the teacher education jargon and how to write up a beautiful lesson plan with the most fantastic goals, but their teaching skills and people skills are very weak. I feel sorry for some of them. It's a tough job, even though everyone who has gone to high school thinks they can do it. I was able to pretty much pick my kids' teachers when they came through the high school where I teach, and I would make sure they were scheduled with the older more experienced ones who had good rapport with the kids and who knew their stuff. It takes at least five years to see improvement in the newer teachers IMO and unfortunately, many are gone for whatever reasons by that time. There are a few who are naturals, but they are few and far between. Another factor making it difficult for aspiring teachers are the burdensome state requirements that scare many off who would make excellent classroom teachers. The state testing requirements,internships,etc., one has to go through are viewed as being a hassle and time consuming for some for the amount of money they will make if they finally get a job. I've been a history buff my whole life, so essentially I get paid for doing my hobby which isn't a bad racket. Summers off aren't bad either. A running gag question making the rounds asks, "what are the two best things about teaching?"

 

The answer: July and August...

[SeattleC]

Anyone my age who is depending on social security being around for retirement is a fool. Like any other expense in life, retirement should be something you budget for, and you shouldn't depend on any outside help. Anything you should happen to get will be an orange-slice garnish to the main course.

 

 

Then why have I been paying thousands of dollars into social security over the last 3+ decades? Isn't it reasonable to expect a return on that 'investment'?

 

I tell you what, it sucks being on the tail end of the baby boom. I'll get some crumbs, and it probably sucks more being younger than the tail end of the baby boom, because crumbs are probably too much to expect for your payments.

 

This is all about greed, really. Especially our very high paid teachers who clearly do better than wall street crooks. But seriously, I have major issues with tenure and the difficulty in getting rid of bad teachers. But financially, teachers aren't getting that good of a deal, and yet they've agreed to accept the financial changes Walker is looking for. Still, he won't move an inch on his end on the collective bargaining issue. I tried to call him to discuss places to visit when he goes to California on the Koch brothers nickel after wining this battle, but for some reason he didn't take my call. I guess he's gotten more cautious.

 

And another rant: I still don't understand why the deficit hawks seem to have absolutely no problem with unnecessary expensive wars.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Jules]

Then why have I been paying thousands of dollars into social security over the last 3+ decades? Isn't it reasonable to expect a return on that 'investment'?

Consider it a charitable contribution.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Or consider it along the same lines as every other tax you pay for and never use. I've contributed to tons of roads I've never ridden on. Meh.

[Guest Jules]

that works too.

[SeattleC]

Thanks, I feel better already....

[Sparky speaks]

Voices from the grave...

 

[LouieB]

Louie,

 

Well, I can tell you that many teachers who are close to or are at retirement age, or have the service time in, are not retiring.

I meet folks like that all the time. In fact teachers (and others) should be retiring and let others take their jobs (despite the issues you include in your post) because there are entirely too many younger workers who aren't working at all. All this stuff about who deserves or doesn't deserve tenure is just one more smokescreen (as is complaining about paying in when you won't get anything or not driving on roads you haven't paid for etc.) for people's refusal to deal with the need for everyone to kick into the general welfare.

 

Those who are now at the beginning of their work life are going to working a very long time under some very tenuous conditions (employment at will) if these verious laws go through. For every teachers who maybe shouldn't be working due to incompentence there are many many more who need the protection and the benefits that those jobs provide (this goes for all government employees and frankly lots of private ones too, but that is a different issue.) Teachers still are not THAT well paid and it is a fairly difficult job (I have to hear about it about every night, since my wife is an urban teacher), so it is easy to dump on teachers and others and act like it is no big deal for them to take lower pay, no pension, no tenure, and no job security.

 

I have also paid into social security and pensions and I am not going to get hardly any social security because it is offset by my pension. That's life. We all pay for things we don't necessarily need, like insurance, like some taxes and fees. That is the price we pay for living in a complex civilization and society. I know this all falls on the deaf ears of those who have posted up after you.

 

I also am putting off retiring as long as possible for various reasons, but not because I would love to work forever. The short term gain that we are going to get from slashing benefits for public unions is going to come back and bit us on the ass later on.

 

LouieB

[Sparky speaks]

Louie,

 

As you and especially your wife know, there are due process procedures to remove the incompetent teacher. All it takes is an administrator to follow the terms of the contract and it can be done. That they don't, is not my concern or worry. I think part of the solution is to weed out the incompetent administrators, and I've seen a few. They would rather remove you "at will" as you so accurately stated than to have to fill out the paperwork and follow the procedures to do it right. They can't be bothered. But let me state, if I had the power to remove any of the more than 80 staff members at the school I teach, I would be hard pressed to find two or three. I think that says quite a lot about the professionalism I see everyday. The couple who would be on my short list have been given extra attention by administration and they supposedly are on notice to shape up. I'm sure that's the way it is in most occupations.

 

When I was younger I had to pay my dues so to speak by being on the bottom of the seniority list for 15 years. To ensure employment in case of budget cuts I went out and got certifications in several other areas where I had seniority over those teaching in those fields. Christ, I'm certified Pre-K through 12 now. I could never see myself as a kindergarten teacher, but if that is what I had to do to ensure employment, that's what I would do. I bumped the current Superintendent of my school system out of his job several years ago when they closed some schools. He went out over the summer and got elementary certification to keep his job. He turned out alright. That's what you have to do.

 

Nothing comes easy, but if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to get it...

[LouieB]

Of course there are no incompetent administrators, we all know that. and of course what every anti-tenure poster here refuses to acknowledge is just what you have mentioned. Unions don't protect incompetent people from being fired, they are subject to due process, which is what all of us should expect from our jobs, union or not. So that is a major straw-person. I also am union, work for a state agency and have seen plenty of people fired over the years. Unions never stopped anyone from being fired. They have stopped people from being unfairly (or illegally) be fired and often folks have many years of legal wranglings ahead of them including grievance proceedures, arbitration, and sometimes suits. I just don't get how anyone here can assume that having a union represented job is a cake walk. It isn't. As I mentioned I got RIFed and have seen people RIFed and it isn't easy. Seniority is an important right that once you have it, why should you give it up??

 

People fought and literally died for the rights we take for granted including the right to actually organize and collectively bargain. The eight hour day, EEO protection, health and safety, child labor, and lots of other things we take are at stake here. But instead, but out enemies and so-called friends want to talk about a handful of "incompetent teachers" like no one else is ever incompetent.

 

LouieB

[dvigs24]

I don't think my career is unionized, so I guess I'll just have to be competent to stay hired.

 

I am a teacher. I belong to a union. I am extremely competent at what I do. I believe in a giving my employer 100% of my effort on a daily basis regardless of being a member of a union. Going in to work every day and doing any less than what I'm being paid for is tantamount to stealing. I have many friends who are wonderful teachers and go to work everyday with the same attitude as myself. I have friends in the private sector who have been employed for years, some of which seem to do nothing but play on the internet all day and take a few calls. I have friends who are teachers who only do the bare minimum. This idea that all unionized workers are mediocre slackers and only private sector employees earn their pay is patently ridiculous, and clearly an idea vigorously promoted by big $$ in order to give the private sector employees who are being stripped of all benefits a convenient scapegoat. In the process, it will allow the big $$ to strip everybody of their rights. It's really unbelievable.

 

In addition, I recognize that there is much reform needed with unions, particularly teachers unions. I think it should be harder to get tenure, we should be evaluated much more frequently and in a more comprehensive way than we currently are. This does not mean that unions should be completely abolished.

[LouieB]

Teachers are a great target. Everyone has had one, everyone knows one, and everyone has an opinion on what a good or bad one is. And how uppity that the teachers got smart and organized unions a few years back. How dare they!! Don't they know their place? Particularly since most teachers are women. And those other government employees, well lots of them are lazy minorities. What right to they have to be protected??

 

Like most class warfare, this has plenty to do with who is being represented and organized, rather than competence.

 

(And of course ikol still has not acknowledged that doctors at public health facilities are sometimes unionized....see herejust for starters.)

 

LouieB

[Sparky speaks]

This idea that all unionized workers are mediocre slackers and only private sector employees earn their pay is patently ridiculous, and clearly an idea vigorously promoted by big $$ in order to give the private sector employees who are being stripped of all benefits a convenient scapegoat. In the process, it will allow the big $$ to strip everybody of their rights. It's really unbelievable.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Sparky speaks]

Just came across this article. If this is true, Governor Walker's claims seem to be based on a lie...

 

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

 

Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin.

 

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

 

Via tax.com

 

How can this be possible?

 

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

 

Many of us are familiar with the concept of deferred compensation from reading about the latest multi-million dollar deal with some professional athlete. As a means of allowing their ball club to have enough money to operate, lowering their own tax obligations and for other benefits, ball players often defer payment of money they are to be paid to a later date. In the meantime, that money is invested for the ball player’s benefit and then paid over at the time and in the manner agreed to in the contract between the parties.

 

Does anyone believe that, in the case of the ball player, the deferred money belongs to the club owner rather than the ball player? Is the owner simply providing this money to the athlete as some sort of gift? Of course not. The money is salary to be paid to the ball player, deferred for receipt at a later date.

 

A review of the state’s collective bargaining agreements – many of which are available for review at the Wisconsin Office of State Employees web site - bears out that it is no different for state employees. The numbers are just lower.

 

Check out section 13 of the Wisconsin Association of State Prosecutors collective bargaining agreement – “For the duration of this Agreement, the Employer will contribute on behalf of the employee five percent (5%) of the employee’s earnings paid by the State. ”

 

Johnston goes on to point out that Governor Walker has gotten away with this false narrative because journalists have failed to look closely at how employee pension plans work and have simply accepted the Governor’s word for it. Because of this, those who wish the unions ill have been able to seize on that narrative to score points by running ads and spreading the word that state employees pay next to nothing for their pensions and that it is all a big taxpayer give-away.

 

If it is true that pension and benefit money is money that already belongs to state workers, you might ask why state employees would not just take the cash as direct compensation and do their own investing for their retirement through their own individual retirement plans.

 

Again, simple.

 

Mr. Johnston continues-

 

Expecting individuals to be experts at investing their retirement money in defined contribution plans — instead of pooling the money so professional investors can manage the money as is done in defined benefit plans — is not sound economics. The concept, at its most basic, is buying wholesale instead of retail. Wholesale is cheaper for the buyers. That is, it saves taxpayers money. The Wisconsin State Investment Board manages about $74.5 billion for an all-in cost of $224 million. That is a cost of about 30-cents per $100, which is good but not great. However it is far less than many defined contribution plans, where costs are often $1 or more per $100.”

 

If the Wisconsin governor and state legislature were to be honest, they would correctly frame this issue. They are not, in fact, asking state employees to make a larger contribution to their pension and benefits programs as that would not be possible- the employees are already paying 100% of the contributions.

 

What they are actually asking is that the employees take a pay cut...

 

Read more:

My link

 

Just think kiddies, you are all getting a free lesson on labor unions, labor busting, teacher tenure, collective bargaining, pensions, due process, and political bullshit and there will not be a test at the end of the unit...

[Sparky speaks]

I'm sorry but here's another interesting take on all this. There might be a pop quiz on this one...

 

Overcoming Divide and Conquer Strategies: 99.9% of the US Population Should Support the Public Unions’ Fight Against Occupying Economic Imperialists

 

By David DeGraw, AmpedStatus Report

 

There is a rule of war that many people are failing to understand: “Do not fight the last war.” In The 33 Strategies of War, Robert Greene calls this “The Guerrilla-War-Of-The-Mind Strategy:”

 

“What most often weighs you down and brings you misery is the past, in the form of unnecessary attachments, repetitions of tired formulas, and the memory of old victories and defeats. You must consciously wage war against the past and force yourself to react to the present moment. Be ruthless on yourself; do not repeat the same tired methods.”

 

The sad truth is that most people are still fighting yesterday’s war. The Republican vs. Democrat charade — good cop, bad cop nonsense — is a mere smokescreen. Don’t be confused by obsolete preconceptions and propaganda. There is one war being fought, The Global Economic Elite Vs. The People.

A global banking cartel has looted nation after nation, the world over, the United States is no exception. They’ve looted trillions from the US public and now they are trying to cut the throat of the public unions. While in the process of attacking private-sector workers and small businesses throughout the country, they are also cracking down on the last layer of worker protections within the public-sector.

The same economic central planners that have systematically exploited workers in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Australia and Asia, have exploited American workers as well. One-tenth of one percent of the population got luxurious life boats, while 99.9% of us are being left behind to drown in a sea of debt and social upheaval.

Join The MovementWe are all on the same sinking ship – me, you, teachers, construction workers, fire fighters, police, Egyptians, Europeans. We are all under attack by the same people. The sooner you understand this, the better off we will be.

All of the global uprisings, against the global bankers, are popular reactions to the implementation of a worldwide Neo-Feudal economic order. People can dismiss and ignore me all they want, but I know what I’m talking about. In fact, I invite Ben Bernanke and Timothy Giethner to a debate. I’ll take them both on at the same time. I’ll expose the two imperial pawns within a minute, faster than Tyson knocked out Spinks.

 

The bottom line is this: It is imperative that 99.9% of the US population actively supports the public unions uprising against the occupying economic imperialists who have conquered our country. If the economic imperialists think they’re going to continue their attacks, by cutting more American workers’ wages and benefits, after looting the nation of trillions, they are going to get a much deserved rude awakening. If they want to steal trillions, increase the price of food and oil, and make further cuts into our income, they are going to get crushed. 239 million Americans are currently living paycheck to paycheck. Push them another inch, and the global bankers might as well go hang with Gaddafi and Mubarak.

Seriously, think about this: They’re going to cut pensions on people who make $25k per year, while all-time record-breaking profits and bonuses are raining down on the economic top one-tenth of one percent. That is sick and twisted. Lloyd Blankfein gets five-times the annual salary of Wisconsin public employees when he simply gives a 30-minute speech on “doing God’s work.”

These banks were bailed out after causing this mess, the American people own them now as far as I’m concerned. Let’s stab the vampires in the heart. Seize their assets and all these budget problems disappear. Break these bloodsuckers up. Spin them off, free the market, free the people, free the planet from this global banking cabal.

 

Read more:

My link

[lost highway]

I think what non-teachers don't understand is this: lazy teachers don't teach. It's pretty hard to be a teacher and be lazy. Where I work, at the elementary level it is impossible. You can get paid that money and be lazy somewhere else. That's not really part of the teaching paradigm. You have to love the job to do it, because it's really hard work no matter how you cut it.

[uncool2pillow]

I am a teacher. I belong to a union. I am extremely competent at what I do. I believe in a giving my employer 100% of my effort on a daily basis regardless of being a member of a union. Going in to work every day and doing any less than what I'm being paid for is tantamount to stealing. I have many friends who are wonderful teachers and go to work everyday with the same attitude as myself. I have friends in the private sector who have been employed for years, some of which seem to do nothing but play on the internet all day and take a few calls. I have friends who are teachers who only do the bare minimum. This idea that all unionized workers are mediocre slackers and only private sector employees earn their pay is patently ridiculous, and clearly an idea vigorously promoted by big $$ in order to give the private sector employees who are being stripped of all benefits a convenient scapegoat. In the process, it will allow the big $$ to strip everybody of their rights. It's really unbelievable.

 

In addition, I recognize that there is much reform needed with unions, particularly teachers unions. I think it should be harder to get tenure, we should be evaluated much more frequently and in a more comprehensive way than we currently are. This does not mean that unions should be completely abolished.

 

I like this post a lot!

 

I think what non-teachers don't understand is this: lazy teachers don't teach. It's pretty hard to be a teacher and be lazy. Where I work, at the elementary level it is impossible. You can get paid that money and be lazy somewhere else. That's not really part of the teaching paradigm. You have to love the job to do it, because it's really hard work no matter how you cut it.

 

I've got to take issue with this one. I think I know where you're coming from. Lazy, incompetent teachers are often driven from the profession because their level of competency creates a classroom environment that is almost impossible to tolerate. I teach with an incredible group of teachers. Most of them give blood, sweat, tears, intellect, emotion, compassion, and massive sacrifices to their personal lives to be great teachers. But there are a few who are lazy and no good. For example, I work with a 7th grade English teacher who hasn't assigned a writing assignment more than 1-2 paragraphs in the 17 years I've worked with her because she doesn't want to take the time to grade them, so it's grammar worksheets students can grade in class.

 

Could my principal fire her and the other small number of poor teachers, as Sparky alluded to earlier? Sure, if they wanted to devote their entire workday and copious amounts of paperwork to the task. It's easier to counsel the younger ones who don't have years and years paid into the pension system and worked their way up the seniority ladder into other jobs. I think most administrators (not just incompetent ones) realize that they'd have to pull themselves away from the rest of their duties to fire a teacher. I've seen it happen. Firing someone in any line of work takes an incredible emotional toll on the manager. For a principal, my God, what they must do to cover all their bases AND do everything else required in their position. Too often, they make compromises and tell themselves themselves the students in their school have way more good teachers than bad.

 

I say none of this in defense of what's happening in Wisconsin. I've read enough to now know that Walker's main (and possibly only) goal is to break the union. It really pisses me off to read Beltmann's post about possibly losing his house because of this. I just feel that we need to be completely frank in our arguments. Nearly all Americans went through the public school system. Nearly all of us had shitty teachers. If you want to challenge those who want to break the unions, you cannot honestly argue "lazy teachers don't teach" unless I completely misinterpreted your argument.

[KevinG]

Just came across this article. If this is true, Governor Walker's claims seem to be based on a lie...

 

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

 

Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin.

 

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

 

Via tax.com

 

How can this be possible?

 

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

 

Many of us are familiar with the concept of deferred compensation from reading about the latest multi-million dollar deal with some professional athlete. As a means of allowing their ball club to have enough money to operate, lowering their own tax obligations and for other benefits, ball players often defer payment of money they are to be paid to a later date. In the meantime, that money is invested for the ball player’s benefit and then paid over at the time and in the manner agreed to in the contract between the parties.

 

Does anyone believe that, in the case of the ball player, the deferred money belongs to the club owner rather than the ball player? Is the owner simply providing this money to the athlete as some sort of gift? Of course not. The money is salary to be paid to the ball player, deferred for receipt at a later date.

 

A review of the state’s collective bargaining agreements – many of which are available for review at the Wisconsin Office of State Employees web site - bears out that it is no different for state employees. The numbers are just lower.

 

Check out section 13 of the Wisconsin Association of State Prosecutors collective bargaining agreement – “For the duration of this Agreement, the Employer will contribute on behalf of the employee five percent (5%) of the employee’s earnings paid by the State. ”

 

Johnston goes on to point out that Governor Walker has gotten away with this false narrative because journalists have failed to look closely at how employee pension plans work and have simply accepted the Governor’s word for it. Because of this, those who wish the unions ill have been able to seize on that narrative to score points by running ads and spreading the word that state employees pay next to nothing for their pensions and that it is all a big taxpayer give-away.

 

If it is true that pension and benefit money is money that already belongs to state workers, you might ask why state employees would not just take the cash as direct compensation and do their own investing for their retirement through their own individual retirement plans.

 

Again, simple.

 

Mr. Johnston continues-

 

Expecting individuals to be experts at investing their retirement money in defined contribution plans — instead of pooling the money so professional investors can manage the money as is done in defined benefit plans — is not sound economics. The concept, at its most basic, is buying wholesale instead of retail. Wholesale is cheaper for the buyers. That is, it saves taxpayers money. The Wisconsin State Investment Board manages about $74.5 billion for an all-in cost of $224 million. That is a cost of about 30-cents per $100, which is good but not great. However it is far less than many defined contribution plans, where costs are often $1 or more per $100.”

 

If the Wisconsin governor and state legislature were to be honest, they would correctly frame this issue. They are not, in fact, asking state employees to make a larger contribution to their pension and benefits programs as that would not be possible- the employees are already paying 100% of the contributions.

 

What they are actually asking is that the employees take a pay cut...

 

Read more:

My link

 

Just think kiddies, you are all getting a free lesson on labor unions, labor busting, teacher tenure, collective bargaining, pensions, due process, and political bullshit and there will not be a test at the end of the unit...

 

 

While I agree with everything you have said, and I whole hardly agree with the Unions and their fight. I need to call BS when I see it. This article may be factually correct, however it does not address the elephant in the the room. Public employees salaries and compensation are funded by the tax payers. To the anti-union Joe out there that is what gets their goat. They don't want "their money" going to the overpaid, over compensation, lazy public worker. Sure they public worker pays 100% of their retirement and what not, not 100% of that money comes from taxpayers.

[Sparky speaks]

 

Could my principal fire her and the other small number of poor teachers, as Sparky alluded to earlier? Sure, if they wanted to devote their entire workday and copious amounts of paperwork to the task. It's easier to counsel the younger ones who don't have years and years paid into the pension system and worked their way up the seniority ladder into other jobs. I think most administrators (not just incompetent ones) realize that they'd have to pull themselves away from the rest of their duties to fire a teacher. I've seen it happen. Firing someone in any line of work takes an incredible emotional toll on the manager. For a principal, my God, what they must do to cover all their bases AND do everything else required in their position. Too often, they make compromises and tell themselves themselves the students in their school have way more good teachers than bad.

 

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's what administrators are supposed to do if they are concerned about the educational success of their school. I would expect if you are contemplating becoming an administrator, you would be aware that you would have to deal with "incompetent" staff somewhere along the line and be equipped to handle it when the time comes. Don't blame tenure or seniority for administrators who don't want to take the time and effort to follow the simple procedures when trying to remove an under-performing staff member. They have secretaries and assistant principals to help with the paperwork. If an administrator is doing his or her job from the beginning, it shouldn't take 10-15 years to identify a weak teacher. Remember, in most states, the period before one is granted tenure has increased over the years. Where I teach in CT, it is now four years. Don't tell me in four years, those who are having problems, can't be identified by administration if they are putting in their due diligence. If it means that much to remove a staff member then a principal shouldn't compromise or be afraid to shake things up. As teachers, we are always told to strive for excellence by our school leaders. Well, so should they.

[uncool2pillow]

I have no plans to go into administration. I've worked for mostly great ones. As one of them put it, "A principal's job is to, every day, deal with the issues that are the major headaches in a teacher's day." My principal has done a great job keeping great teachers in the classroom. Unfortunately, to get rid of some of the not so good ones, he's had to follow the path of least resistance: ship them off to other schools, push into early retirement through by making their teaching responsibilities unbearable, and, like I said before, counseling the younger ones out of the profession. He's fired a few (2 in 12 years, if memory serves correct). It could be the difference between Connecticut and Iowa (where local districts still have more autonomy that most other states), but I think -- nationwide -- it's harder to get rid of bad teachers than you want to believe.

[Analogman]

I just read a news report that stated there were more than 70,000 people marching in Wisconsin yesterday. That's pretty amazing.

[LouieB]

It is. They are really keeping the pressure up.

 

(OMG public employees being paid by the public, what will they think of next?)

 

LouieB

[KevinG]

I just read a news report that stated there were more than 70,000 people marching in Wisconsin yesterday. That's pretty amazing.

 

but nary a mention on CNN, FOXnews, MSNBC, etc.

 

if 500 tea partiers get together it is the end of the world. If 70K union supporters get together does it really happen?