General Political Thread

[Hixter]

(As always some on here must get pretty fidgety at Wilco and other concerts when Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger and other songs dealing with poor people and immigrants get sung.)

What makes you say that?

[KevinG]

I gotta say I find it FUCKING ridiculous these reports that both Clintons are pissed at Anthony Weiner.  I can understand Hillary being pissed for her former employee and friend, Huma Abedin, Weiner's wife.  She can probably provide great counsel to Abedin having endured her own husband's escapades.  

 

Bill?  He's got no reason or room for outrage.  His own failings were worse than what we know of Weiner's.  Sexting people who aren't your wife is one thing, and wouldn't end well for me, personally.  But engaging in actual sexual relations is a whole other ballgame.

 

I have said the same thing, but on a broader scale.  Anyone who has given Bill Clinton and other politicians embroiled in sex scandals a pass, they have to do the same with Anthony Weiner.  

 

Also I don't get this thing with asking him to get out of the race.  1) Other than the Weiner thing the campaign isn't particularly ugly 2) the  democratic candidate who comes out of the primary will win the mayoral race 3) Weiner is unlikely to win as he is now 10 points down.  

 

So what damage is he doing (other than to himself)?  Why not let the people of NYC decide if what he did and his record and vision for the City are ones that they want.  

 

Now I don;t think we have any New Yorkers on this board but I would interested in what someone from the city thinks about the whole Weiner thing.  

[uncool2pillow]

Clinton did not run for office after the Lewinsky scandal, the last time he was publicly embarrassed in a sex scandal.  Others want him to get out because his campaign is clearly a joke and dragging down the image of the party.

[uncool2pillow]

(As always some on here must get pretty fidgety at Wilco and other concerts when Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger and other songs dealing with poor people and immigrants get sung.)

 

I wouldn't expect a non-Christian to get fidgety when the Avett Brothers break out "Just a Closer Walk With Thee".  I think we've been through this before, but there are all sorts of reasons a person can enjoy a political song even if they don't agree with the message.

[LouieB]

I wouldn't expect a non-Christian to get fidgety when the Avett Brothers break out "Just a Closer Walk With Thee".  I think we've been through this before, but there are all sorts of reasons a person can enjoy a political song even if they don't agree with the message.

Actually I like gospel music but after awhile I do begin to lose it if I am being preached at.  The Avett Brothers singing a gospel song is not the same as a band breaking out This Land is Your Land and really meaning it. 

 

Many years ago I attended the Bean Blossom Festival, which was Bill Monroe's bluegrass fest in Indiana.  After a while the gospel songs wore on my heavily.  They were not being done as musical exercise, but as a true expression of faith.  Likewise I don't attend the Chicago Gospel fest, because that also is a serious expression of religious faith.  I don't attend any of the churches where I am sure they are performing some rockin music because I don't want anyone to think I am a believer.  Attending a show where people are serious about the politics they are espousing, if it was right wing ideas, would make me uneasy no matter how wonderful the music was.  Divorcing one's self from the words being sung must be a wonderful ability to have.  I still get a tingly feeling when someone sings Pastures of Plenty, but if it doesn't bother you that someone is actually supporting farm workers, then more power to you. I just simply can't image for a minute putting on a Phil Ochs record and enjoying it for the tunes.

 

LouieB

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Saw something funny online today.

"The Legend of Voter Fraud: A strange phenomenon that Republicans believe only happens in places where they lose elections."

I just simply can't image for a minute putting on a Phil Ochs record and enjoying it for the tunes.

 

LouieB

Except Pleasures of the Harbor, right?

[uncool2pillow]

Actually I like gospel music but after awhile I do begin to lose it if I am being preached at.  The Avett Brothers singing a gospel song is not the same as a band breaking out This Land is Your Land and really meaning it. 

 

Many years ago I attended the Bean Blossom Festival, which was Bill Monroe's bluegrass fest in Indiana.  After a while the gospel songs wore on my heavily.  They were not being done as musical exercise, but as a true expression of faith.  Likewise I don't attend the Chicago Gospel fest, because that also is a serious expression of religious faith.  I don't attend any of the churches where I am sure they are performing some rockin music because I don't want anyone to think I am a believer.  Attending a show where people are serious about the politics they are espousing, if it was right wing ideas, would make me uneasy no matter how wonderful the music was.  Divorcing one's self from the words being sung must be a wonderful ability to have.  I still get a tingly feeling when someone sings Pastures of Plenty, but if it doesn't bother you that someone is actually supporting farm workers, then more power to you. I just simply can't image for a minute putting on a Phil Ochs record and enjoying it for the tunes.

 

LouieB

 

So you contend the Avetts don't mean it as much as Springsteen singing Seeger, eh? Do you have insight into the Avetts' faith?

 

I love Springsteen and don't begrudge him a thing, but I would contend that Gates and Buffett are more generous with their wealth than he is.

 

Lennon wrote Imagine, but I don't think he meant it.

[LouieB]

So you contend the Avetts don't mean it as much as Springsteen singing Seeger, eh? Do you have insight into the Avetts' faith? I love Springsteen and don't begrudge him a thing, but I would contend that Gates and Buffett are more generous with their wealth than he is. Lennon wrote Imagine, but I don't think he meant it.

I see singers all the time that sing a gospel song as part of their sets and I don't believe they are sanctified.  I do believe Springsteen believes when he sings a Seeger or Guthrie song, but he may be a fucking liar.  I will repeat what I said. I like listening to gospel music, mostly the old stuff.  Not believing it doesn't detract from enjoying it.  But there is something different about politics to me. If someone starting singing about a political issue I was uncomfortable with I would squirm.

 

I am in the minority here I know. This is a convo that goes way back here on VC.  There was a time when people sang songs of a political nature they actually believed in and believed would change things.  Maybe it is different now. 

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

I know plenty of "older" folks who adore Dylan and other protest singers, but have always been conservative. I think there were some who hoped to change the world, but lots who wanted to get laid, get, high, and enjoy some cool music.

[LouieB]

I know plenty of "older" folks who adore Dylan and other protest singers, but have always been conservative. I think there were some who hoped to change the world, but lots who wanted to get laid, get, high, and enjoy some cool music.

Yea, okay.  I guess the bottom line is that the left has cool music, whereas the right really has none. 

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

Yea, okay.  I guess the bottom line is that the left has cool music, whereas the right really has none. 

 

LouieB

I'd agree with this.  Can't really think of any exceptions except  maybe some of Rush's libertarian, Ayn Rand-celebrating stuff has some conservative appeal.

[caliber66]

LEE GREENWOOD IS AWESOME.

[NoJ]

Hold the red star proudly high in hand!

[LouieB]

Actually this is not really true either.  Most country artists were and are pretty conservative and they make good music. 

 

LouieB

[caliber66]

Hold the red star proudly high in hand!

 

[uncool2pillow]

Actually this is not really true either.  Most country artists were and are pretty conservative and they make good music. 

 

LouieB

But did they make "conservative" music?  Lee Greenwood and Toby Keith have made conservative music, but -- despite 66rebilac's contention -- it sucks.  

[Atticus]

As always this argument is stupid.

 

LouieB

I just want to say how sorry I am that you have to deal with so much stupidity on the Internet.

[NoJ]

 

Hold the red star proudly high in hand!

 

 

 

GAH!

[mountain bed]

I always thought The Dead (in mostly acoustic settings) and Jerry in particular (with Old & In The Way) did very good interpretations of some pretty heavy religious tunes. Kind of odd, considering there's hardly a more hedonistic band than the Good Ol' GD.

 

Why did they do 'em? Probably the main reason is a good tune is a good tune. And I kinda get off on listening to a bunch of acid crazies singing about Jesus. 

[LouieB]

Religious music is interesting based on the music presented, which can be somewhat divorced from the content.  Political songs on the other hand can rarely be divorced from the content, because the words are often more important than the music.  I know this seems like a contradiction and maybe it is.  But it is easy enough to set aside the content of religious music for awhile, while political (protest songs, etc.) have the purpose of a persuading one to a particular belief. 

 

And as I mentioned, a few religious songs thrown in a set of secular music (like the Dead or just about any other group) is a bit of a change up.  An entire day of religious music would become tedious and uninteresting to the non- believer.  A political song thrown in to a set is nearly always there because the singer actually believes the content.  You won't hear many singers do The International simply because of the great tune it is.  You won't hear someone pull out "Pastures of Plenty" or "Los Gatos Canyon" in a set unless they want to make a point about migrant labor.  No one is going to sing the "Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" for the great rousing tune.  Gospel music on the other hand is often thrown in a set (even by folks who aren't religious) because of the mood it creates.

 

(And of course many political songs are based on religious tunes....see Woody Guthrie, Joe Hill, etc.)

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

Some performers who sing religious music -- the Dead, for example -- may do so out of a a sense of history for traditional American music and not out of a sincere religious devotion.  It's in that context that I enjoy political music whether I agree with the political principles behind it.

 

It seems hard for you to grasp that because the politics behind the music are such an integral component to you.  It reminds me of ction's bit about enjoying Wilco on his terms.  I may appreciate the music, the passion and artfulness of lyric, and a passionate performance, even if I disagree with it.

[NoJ]

I always thought The Dead (in mostly acoustic settings) and Jerry in particular (with Old & In The Way) did very good interpretations of some pretty heavy religious tunes. Kind of odd, considering there's hardly a more hedonistic band than the Good Ol' GD.

 

Why did they do 'em? Probably the main reason is a good tune is a good tune. And I kinda get off on listening to a bunch of acid crazies singing about Jesus. 

 

Me too.....I love Cold Jordan and the rest of 'em. Hell, I love The Louvin Bros too

[Atticus]

It reminds me of ction's bit about enjoying Wilco on his terms.  I may appreciate the music, the passion and artfulness of lyric, and a passionate performance, even if I disagree with it.

 

that's not a bit.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I love how this thread has gotten totally derailed into a music thread. Wilco fans rule!

But please, don't let it get moved into the Someone Else's Song forum.

[LouieB]

I love how this thread has gotten totally derailed into a music thread. Wilco fans rule!

But please, don't let it get moved into the Someone Else's Song forum.

Not to worry, because ultimately this is about politics not music. 

 

You can certainly put on (as I do) compilations or albums of gospel music (which is part of traditional American music) and enjoy it.  I still can't imagine someone putting on Woody Guthrie's Songs of Sacco and Vanzetti and loving it if you aren't interested in the content of the words.  For that matter I can't imagine putting on any of Pete Seeger's more political material such as American Industrial Ballads or We Shall Overcome if you aren't interested in unions or civil rights.  Listening to Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs, Si Kahn, Holly Near, or any other political type artist for the music seems inconceivable.  Listening to some of Springsteen's more overt political material has got to painful for those who disagree with the content. 

 

The thought of listening to Ted Nugent, even if I were a big fan of that type of music, is difficult at this point.  I don't make a habit of listening to Dylan's religious period either, although I love listening to the rest of his catalogue.  I also don't make a habit of listening to overtly sexist, violent, or homophobic rap.  On the flip side I can't imagine someone with deeply held conservative political views listening with any pleasure in listening to Public Enemy. 

 

LouieB