Gun violence close to home

[kidsmoke]

We got an automated phone call this morning from my daughter's school district, advising that all schools were in session today. My husband asked, "What is today? Why wouldn't schools be in session?" We thought it was weird but proceeded as usual, thinking maybe some kids had been spreading rumors as a prank or something like that.

 

It turns out to be far more serious. Last night a pair of Riverside police officers were ambushed at a major street intersection about 5 minutes away from our home. One officer is in the hospital in intensive care, but looks as though he'll survive. The other officer was killed. A massive manhunt is underway for the suspect, believed to be the rogue ex-LAPD officer Chris Dorner, who has put out a ranting "manifesto" promising to treat cops as prey, and listing multiple people he plans to murder. The guy was let go from the LAPD (I don't know the reasons, but psychological instability seems evident) and reacted by murdering the daughter, and husband, of one of the officers involved in the evaluation that resulted in Dorner's dismissal. I'm not sure if those are his only murders other than the Riverside officer.

 

My daughter's school isn't anywhere close, so I'm not worried about her, but you'd better believe I have my deadbolts set here at home. For awhile the police had a big chunk of local turf cordoned off, but it now appears less likely that Dorner is still in this area. There were reports from San Diego that he might be barricaded in a hotel room there. The whole southland is on high alert, with freeway Amber Alert signs being used to give descriptions of his vehicle. I hope they lock this nut up fast...although he sounds like one who will more likely go out in a blaze of gunfire. I hope he doesn't kill anyone else.

 

I read reports from our local paper that described the scene in early-morning Riverside, as people began to set out for work in the dim foggy morning. Those who happened to be driving unknowingly toward the cordoned-off crime scene area suddenly found themselves staring down police rifles pointed directly at them, amid shouts of "Turn your car around! Do not proceed!" and those who froze, startled, got approached closer, rifles aimed dead on, cars slapped on the hoods or sides until the people understood and complied. The police were taking no chances with anybody, and you can certainly understand why. The ambushed officers hadn't even been doing anything but routine patrol. They were stopped at the light when they were attacked. Dorner had simply chosen a likely major intersection, and then sat back and waited until a police cruiser came through. How fucking ugly and random.

 

The local reportage noted that people who were heading for the Starbucks in the cordoned-off area for their morning pick-me-up were out of luck. All I could think was, after driving groggily into that scene, police with rifles leveled all around me, I'd have had enough adrenaline pumping to keep me going all day. There would be no need for coffee.

 

Dorner is said to have multiple guns, including assault rifles. I hope he is taken down quickly. Crazy shit.

[ih8music]

Yeah, was reading a little bit about this.  Apparently the cops are so paranoid that they've accidentally shot at (and wounded) a few people that they mistook for this guy.  Crazy.

 

edit: here's the article

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

[kidsmoke]

Here's the CNN link:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lapd-attacks/index.html

[LouieB]

We seem to be in the middle of an unpresidented amount of gun violence, but maybe it is just we are so much more sensitive to it because of Newtown. 

 

UNtil the outrage continues long term and the voices parrotting that guns don't kill people, people do and that we should be able to have all the guns we want are finally drowned out by those who think that unfettered gun ownership isn't a constitutional right that can go on unchecked, this kind of stuff is going to go on. 

 

LouieB

[ih8music]

Here's his unedited (and crazy long) manifesto.  He's vowed to take out members of the LAPD who have been covering up rampant police brutality.  He was fired because he reported a fellow officer for excessive force and they claimed he was lying, firing him soon after.

 

http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-copy-of-the-rogue-lapd-officers

 

I don't condone violence, but if half of what he claims is true then there might be something good to come out of this by bringing it all to light.  Just hope they catch him soon.

[kidsmoke]

Knowing the LAPD, I suspect that a good deal more than half is true. What a lousy story, all the way around. His violence isn't going to solve anything, and it's just going to bring a lot of misery - already has, to the families of his victims. 

 

I expect it will end with him losing his life to his "cause". I do agree with you that maybe bringing the LAPD's actions to light could wind up being beneficial, but how sad that this is how it had to play out.

[Ghost of Electricity]

The 2nd Amendment should be repealed.  Glad you and yours are ok, kidsmoke.

[kidsmoke]

There's a seriously weird, paranoid vibe around right now. He took his truck up into the local San Bernardino mountains and torched it. No one knows where he is now, but I'd presume that if no one is reporting a stolen vehicle, he's still up there. It's a smallish community, and it's damned cold tonight. Police have been said to be going literally door to door.

 

And thanks, Ghost.

[Hixter]

UNtil the outrage continues long term and the voices parrotting that guns don't kill people, people do and that we should be able to have all the guns we want are finally drowned out by those who think that unfettered gun ownership isn't a constitutional right that can go on unchecked, this kind of stuff is going to go on. 

The rogue cop's manifesto applauded Feinstein's "assault" rifle ban and made clear that he's in favor of gun control. He's an Obama-loving, gay rights-promoting, NRA-hating spree killer. Wrap your head around that.

[LouieB]

The rogue cop's manifesto applauded Feinstein's "assault" rifle ban and made clear that he's in favor of gun control. He's an Obama-loving, gay rights-promoting, NRA-hating spree killer. Wrap your head around that.

I don't really have to. Whatever his beliefs are doesn't impact what his actions clearly are. 

 

LouieB

[ih8music]

The rogue cop's manifesto applauded Feinstein's "assault" rifle ban and made clear that he's in favor of gun control. He's an Obama-loving, gay rights-promoting, NRA-hating spree killer. Wrap your head around that.

Yup. He hates the NRA and specifically called out the Clintons (both Bill and Hillary) as great leaders. He's obviously disturbed, but that doesn't mean everything he supports (or rejects) is wrong. In a different world he might have been a more constructive force for change. As it is, he'll be dismissed as a psycho ex-cop killer... which I can't really argue with.

[LouieB]

Do we really want to attach importance to the ideas of a psychopath?  The Unibomber also had some salient points in his writings too I suppose.  Leave it to HIxter to try and pin the crazy on someone expressing softcore lefty ideas to deflect the issue of gun violence as a problem.  

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

Leave it to HIxter to try and pin the crazy on someone expressing softcore lefty ideas to deflect the issue of gun violence as a problem. 

No pins necessary -- I think it's quite obvious that he's crazy. I also recognize that gun violence is a problem -- my complaint is with the way it is being addressed by our elected officials.

 

This Dorner freak is a perfect example of the fact that:

 

All spree shooters aren't white.

Cops and soldiers aren't the only people who can be trusted with guns.

All people who own "assault" rifles aren't rabid conservatives with an NRA membership.

We should be concentrating on treating mental illness, not passing more gun laws.

[LouieB]

 

 

We should be concentrating on treating mental illness, not passing more gun laws.

We need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill  Whether or not that means we need more gun  laws remains to be seen.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

We need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill  Whether or not that means we need more gun  laws remains to be seen.

It's already illegal for the mentally ill to purchase a firearm, so how would additional legislation help?

[LouieB]

When people so many people are getting killed by guns we need to enforce the laws we have and maybe figure out ways to strengthen them.  I know you don't think we need to do anything but you are in the minority. 

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

When people so many people are getting killed by guns we need to enforce the laws we have and maybe figure out ways to strengthen them. 

I'm with you on enforcing current laws but I can't fathom how they can be strengthened with any meaningful effect.

 

Something like, "Ok, Mr. Mental Patient, not only can you not buy guns, you can double-not buy guns."?

[Tweedling]

The 2nd Amendment should be repealed.  

Yeah, that'll fix it.....

[lost highway]

It's already illegal for the mentally ill to purchase a firearm, so how would additional legislation help?

 

How about make it so you can't buy a gun at a gun-show with no background check?

 

The NRA has been steering this conversation and convincing a lot of gun owners that any legislation is bad.  What gun-owners aren't realizing is that the NRA isn't representative of everyone who owns a gun, and they have become a paid advocate for a multi-billion dollar industry.  The interests of sane gun owners need not be dictated by gun corporations or their puppet club.

[KevinG]

How about make it so you can't buy a gun at a gun-show with no background check?

 

The NRA has been steering this conversation and convincing a lot of gun owners that any legislation is bad.  What gun-owners aren't realizing is that the NRA isn't representative of everyone who owns a gun, and they have become a paid advocate for a multi-billion dollar industry.  The interests of sane gun owners need not be dictated by gun corporations or their puppet club.

 

A lot of the pro gun ways of dealing with gun violence is a reactionary (conceal carry, armed security guards, panic rooms in schools, etc.)  It does very little stop the violence before it starts.  

 

Admittedly all the gun laws in world would not stop this guy.      

[Hixter]

How about make it so you can't buy a gun at a gun-show with no background check?

I have no problem with background checks, but they won't make the slightest difference in gun crimes.

[Ghost of Electricity]

The Feinstein law includes some good common sense measures (like universal background checks) but it does not go nearly far enough  One problem with it is that it bans certain assault weapons by name, not by the characteristics that make them dangerous (such as how rapidly they can fire).  So a manufacturer only has to change the name, and the gun is once again legal.

 

We need to look at some of the models of other countries who have a fraction of a fraction of the gun crime we have.  In Britain, they have introduced measures making it virtually impossible to get ammunition for assault weapons.  In Japan guns are for all practical purposes illegal.  They average under 10 gun-related homicides a year.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, I believe the 2nd Amendment should be repealed.  Though I hold no illusions about the likelihood of this happening, there is perhaps some outside-the-box thinking that could be done.  What if the production, import, and sale of all existing calibre weapons was made illegal, as well as the production, import, and sale of ammunition for those weapons? Getting existing guns off the street would be a non-issue, they would be obsolete. In addition, you could heavily regulate the production and sale of new calibre weapons and ammunition. Introduce a permit-to-own, background check which includes interviews with the applicant and acquaintances of the applicant (i think they do something like this in Australia) a six-month waiting period, etc. Effectively, start over. 

[uncool2pillow]

I have no problem with background checks, but they won't make the slightest difference in gun crimes.

Slightest difference?  Really??  So it's completely out of the realm of possibility that a few dozen (or hundred, or thousand) people who may be denied a gun under a stricter background check law would get frustrated and give up the pursuit of a gun?  Certainly lots, maybe even most would continue that pursuit into the black market, but I think it could make a significant difference.

 

One argument against any new gun control regulations seems to be, they won't stop many gun crimes, so why bother? 

[Hixter]

One problem with it is that it bans certain assault weapons by name, not by the characteristics that make them dangerous

That's incorrect. It explicitly mentions things like pistol grips and barrel shrouds. Such features don't make the slightest difference as far as "danger" is concerned, they're merely cosmetic items that make a gun look "scary."

 

Feinstein's bill also exempts government officials, cops and retired cops, so it's yet another case of "laws are only for the little people."

Slightest difference?  Really??  So it's completely out of the realm of possibility that a few dozen (or hundred, or thousand) people who may be denied a gun under a stricter background check law would get frustrated and give up the pursuit of a gun?

America's gun violence problem is rooted in gangs and the drug culture. How many of those street crimes were committed by people who purchased their handguns legally. I'd reckon the numbers are in the single digits, percentage-wise.

[uncool2pillow]

Hixter, your reply pretty much ignored the premise of my argument, which was to admit that background checks are not going to be a panacea, but that it would make more than a slight difference.  The arguments I hear from the anti gun control crowd seem to be focused on the idea that if new restrictions aren't going to solve all or most gun crimes, then it's not worth the effort.  I say that's bunk.