EL the Famous

I respect that, but again I ask where is it said that the possibility of science helping both those looking to create life and those looking to save it can't co-exist? Do we really have to choose one over the other and by saying that, don't you actually kind of think one life is more important than another? Just like the request for the actual bill to be posted, if someone can both: 1. PLEASE comment on the adult cell research and why it wasn't passed if the goal is to help those in need of a cure find one. 2. Post figures that show that the amount of couple who would adopt said cells out

Are you fucking kidding me? When did I EVER say that any of our fertility issues compared to the struggles of cancer patients, spinal chord injury patients, alzheimers patients, and so on. Truth be told I don't have to explain to you why it's so important for couples to give birth to their kids versus adopting and why that particular need outweighs the needs of millions of people suffering from terminal illnesses and lifelong paralyzing conditions, because, my guess is, both can co-exist. If you have figures to tell me that this 'surplus' of cells couldn't be adopted AND used for research a

Regardless, good for you. Seriously. I know it's borderline censorship for me to agree w/ that, but it's those books and point/counterpoint shows that are completely driving us away from the actual issues...and why the Daily Show and Colbert Report are, hands down, the smartest shows on television.

You just summed up exactly how I feel and why I feel wary of anything be relayed as an absolute by either side of the divide, even though i'm card-carrying-bleed blue state blood-democrat. Plain and simple.

BTW, that was a post offering another legitimate source for medical research versus something else. Sure.

I sincerely apologize then. My mistake, I was an asshole for jumping to conclusions and good for you for feeling like that. Seriously. You're right, I obviously need to go to lunch...a long one.

Isn't that exactly what he said? We took some cells that could save and improve millions of lives and used 'em to put two more babies on an already overpopulated planet. Plus, as a couple who dealt w/ miscarriage, and the way that comment was posted...yes, I internailzed it and the one above. Why wouldn't I?! If that's NOT what he meant...let him post up as such and i'll retract my statement.

Maybe to a lesser degree, but a large part of those things have been happening in one way or another for centuries prior. I understand where you're coming from and i'm not angry at you for feeling like that...I am, however, angry that you and countless others do feel like that. I'm not discounting that any of these things needs to be addressed, but running from them won't make them go away...not moving forward and living your life, won't make them go away...not having kids, won't make them go away...soldiering on and trying to make them go away, that may have a chance. First and foremost, I

You really think that? With all due respect, i've seen your myspace pics with your niece/nephew (forgive me, I forget which it is) and, obviously, how proud it makes you to be an Uncle. Same goes for pics/comments posted of the beautiful baby by the justifiably proud, beaming Grandmother that is our own Miss Viatroy...the wonderful pics/posts from Aunt Go-Go...etc. Did the planet become overpopulated before or after they were born? They may not have been born via ART, but my kids are in no way any less deserving to be here than they are. If me and my wife wanting to be parents and using av

That isn't even anywhere close to being funny and a completely asshole thing to post. Regardless, hope you never have to deal with that, Kev.

The only thing that truly offends me about you is the Riviera promotional juggernaut that bombs my email weekly. I love you (and your band) too, man and always will. I just wanted to fully understand the whole thing as this does hit very close to home for me. We had a pre-baptism meeting w/ our pastor and we got into a lengthy discussion about IVF and then, the fact we had an embryo on ice. Obviously, he's been to a bazillion conferences where this has come up, but had never actually met somebody that (or at least somebody that was open about) had gone through it. He was completely non-ju

I don't see anybody saying that other than you and I still don't see your point? If it's just 'Bush Sucks'...I gleaned that from your other thread. It still reads like some sort of dig on the whole adoption thing and if that's the case...just say that. I hear you. Nobody is more imperfect than me, except maybe Anne Coulter and Hitler...who, both, I think actually ate full grown babies for breakfast.

There it is. I guess I should consider myself an asshole then...but I won't. My guess is every year over that same 20 years somebody has said that same exact thing. However, i'm not a defeatist. Do I fear for my children and grandchildren's future? Sure, but we've gotten through some crazy horrible times by facing fears and not just whining about them. You can say that the state of our country is horrible right now and in some aspects you'd be absolutely right...but to say it's worse than it was during the great depression and vietnam and racial segregation, does injustice to those that actual

I respectfully would like to ask what point does that make? I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. However, if you want, I could re-post a handful of things that completely contradict that statement. We all do that...me, you, ikol, everybody...in one way or another and most of the time, based on opinion and not indisputable fact. then I completely agree and take personal insult in the posturing done by W during the press conference as well. it just seems a little crazy to me that so many couples are looking to become parents, having such a hard time and we have an "excess of the c

but wait! there's more! Reliable source, no bias here whatsoever. There's also another hard-hitting 'story' on 'why right-wingers can't get it up'. Whatever. G-Dub is a total idiot, but so is this guy. It's this type of unintelligent 'i'm a mad as hell liberal guy and i'm not going to take it anymore' junk that's so counterproductive to getting the republican regime out of office. It make me just as sick as the crap coming from Coulter or other 'pundits' to the far side of the other direction. There are plenty of legitimate examples of how this administration sucks via how it's underper

No need to be a dick, D. Reading this article again, i'm missing the part where you said these weren't embryos and it does say he vetoed a bill for embryonic stem cell research. Exactly why aren't these adoptable? If there are some additional articles that better articulate that the cells in question are unusable for anything other than medical research, please post up...like I said, if they're going to go to waste and absolutely cannot be used in the IVF process...i'm with w/ you all the way on this. Rhetoric is a two-way street, brother and your

I was more responding to the poster who made the whole 'snowflake' comment, but it's the may or may not that makes it no less of a clear cut political/science debate, D. If the parents have stated they don't want them, there is no way that they can be used in an adoption scenario and the last option is that they'll be destroyed...of course they should be used to maybe save or maybe not save a life. Just so we're clear, am I wrong for wanting the adoption scenario over their donation to medical research?

also, i'm sure nobody will actually ever tell them they were a 'snowflake child' and that they'll be 'plagued' w/ that title any more than my kids will be called 'test tube babies' by anybody. they're children. period.

Fair enough. I do too...if it's really, really good. I wish getting stuff that sucked was as rare for me as it was for you though.

Ahh, got it. Never heard of that. Well, as a person that currently has a frozen embryo and going through the oft emotionally draining process of trying to find a way to conceive a child...I don't see the bad in preferring that said embryo be 'adopted' should we decide not to have another child and someone have the opportunity to give birth as well. I see the benefit of stem cell research and i'm actually for it (thusly, not a huge fan of this veto)...however, some of you guys seem to be speaking in absolutes again w/out really knowing how hard it is to make that decision. You can say they be

Well, that's a given...but, really, i'm interested to hear what that post was all about. Snowflake children?

What about the music you don't get from an iTunes? like the kind. unless you buy physical copies of everything you DL. I actually am the same way, but it's becoming easier for me to part w/ the packaging when I can't find the album in any of the stores or the album isn't worth buying in it's entirety.

what does that even mean?

It is an interesting discussion...that I need to go support a business versus the other way around. If a retailer is following 'Business 101' and filling/supporting a consumers need, then they'll be successful. The level of success proportionate to amount of consumers that have said need to be supported. Maybe the business model doesn't support a brick and mortar operation as much anymore and they should switch or at least augment w/ a web-based ordering system. It kind of sucks, but that's how businesses are run...otherwise, it's just a library.