bobbob1313

I'll say this, it's very difficult to prove he lied. It is always extremely difficult to prove someone's motive. But I don't think there's much doubt that we didn't have very good evidence, at the very least...

And this comes back to the reason nothing ever really changes. Rather than doing the right thing, both parties do the electable thing. And there's nothing to gain from not being partisanned. Both parties are rooting for a kind of constant, orwellian war between the two parties to keep them both in control.

Lie is a difficult word to prove.

Kucinich is one of the few people on either side that I like.

I mean, it's true. We've always had a view that the ends justify the means. We just went too far.

Well, it's sort of an ends justifying the means situation. Bush's ends sucked, so the means suck. Lincoln's (To name one of many) ends were cool, so his means were cool.

My mom's house has been on the market for like a year and a half. Want it?

We've done this debate before, but it could probably be argued that damn near every President we've ever had could be a war criminal. We've done a lot of shitty stuff as a country.

The extent that democrats misunderstand the impeachment trial of Clinton is astounding. And once again, the person who makes sense to me is Bjorn.

Well, what is to be gained from impeaching Bush?

I think this is a good way to think about it. But if Jules or JUDE said it, they'd have people asking them how they look at themselves in the mirror or how they sleep at night. This place is fun. And I really think if it was so easy to have the president impeached that a dude on a message board could wrap it up, it would've happened already.

Say what you want about the guy, but J Nick definitely didn't write this. It would've been alot easier to read. And I'd say that if I had to play devil's advocate (We all know how much I hate to do that) and justify being pro-war and pro-life, I'd say I could do so by saying that war doesn't have to end with someone dying. Abortion does. Doesn't have to be hypocritical. It's a flimsy case, but if I were on that side and used that as my reasoning, I wouldn't think I was a bad person. Personally, I hate trying to draw a moral line across the board. Sometimes, I could be pro-war, and someti

It seems like you are assuming a lot of things here, and that's my problem with this. It's unfair to ASSUME things about someone's personal life. As for the democrats taking less money from corporations, come on. If they do, it's probably incrementally smaller, and it doesn't really matter. If you've convinced yourself they care more about you than they do perpetuating a cycle that keeps them in power and keeps money in their pockets, good for you. It must be easier to vote for them with a clean conscience, but I can't bring myself to do it.

I'm not saying he should've been impeached, but there was more of a case on him than there is for Bush. They proved perjury for Bush (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), they would have to prove that Bush willingly and knowingly led the country to war under false pretenses. And even then, I'm not sure that is an impeachable offense, since I'm not sure there are actual laws against, that, though again I could be wrong.

So what makes Obama more in touch? I'm not trying to argue McCain is either. I don't believe there is a senator on the hill that understands the life of the average American, because they don't come from there. I don't doubt Barrack and Michelle worked hard to get where they are, but I also disagree with the implication that John and Cindy have never worked hard. i laffoed. One guy lied under oath, that's why he was impeached. Whether George Bush broke the law is mostly a matter of opinion and would be pretty hard to prove.

And what does your caricature of McCain's personal life reveal about his character?

I had the opposite debate with people on another board, and I still never really had an answer to my main question: What makes someone an "elitist" in politics? Neither of them is in touch with the concerns of the everyday American, and if it comes down to wealth, then sure McCain is wealthier, but at some point, money isn't a concern, and I'd say the Obama's are probably at that point.

I'll never understand people's inability to look past a few curse words to see the substance of something. It's how I talk in real life and it's how I post, sorry if you can't look past it, but it's just words. And yeah, if you are going to personally judge someone you haven't met (like, John McCain the person, rather than John McCain the politician, who are seperate entities), then I'm going to call you out on it. Especially if you are going to spew some of the crap that FHF has been here.

Wiki-ized version: McCain's return to the United States reunited him with his family. His wife Carol had suffered her own crippling ordeal during his captivity, due to an automobile accident in December 1969.[52] Her husband became a celebrity of sorts, as a returned POW.[52] McCain underwent treatment for his injuries, including months of grueling physical therapy,[53] and attended the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. during 1973–1974.[54] Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a

Yeah, that's pretty much the same thing.

Wow, I missed that little bit from FHF. He's on a roll today.

Absolutely the same thing, and I like to think that I've personally never done that. I'm just saying that it's completely unfair to judge two people's marriage that you've never even met. I'd say you are absolutely talking out of your ass on that issue, or at the very best, you are just regurgitating the same old crap we've all heard. Either way, it seems like if democrats are going to complain about smear tactics, maybe they should practice what they preach. There has to be a line, and making a judgment call like that about two people who have chosen to spend their lives together and w

He didn't really say much, but if you really want me to... Why is coming from the military an inherently bad thing? And why should Barrack be given a free pass about lobbying money? Because you happen to agree with his politics? Or because you think he'll do better things with the lobby money? Then what you are saying is you only care about lobbyists if Republicans are involved. Well, Obama obviously loves his wife way more than McCain does, that's for damn sure. If you are worth 2 million dollars, you love your wife. But not 140. That's where the line is drawn.

Do you know them? Have you talked to them both about their marriage and the dissolution of it? No? Then you are talking out of your fucking ass. This is why politics makes me frustrated. There's no fucking line.

Looking into his past is different than saying he doesn't love his wife.