MattZ Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 You know the scene in IATTBYH where the fellas are sitting in a circle and Jay Bennet is playing Poor Places in open chords as they figure out the song? It looks to me like Jeff is playing it in power chords (sort of), or maybe just barre chords, but obviously in a different tuning. Does anyone have any idea what the tuning of Jeff's guitar is and what the changes are? I was watching it last night and got intrigued -- I think it might be in open C but it didnt sound right to me when I tried to make the changes. Not sure if that means I had the tuning wrong or the changes wrong... Anyone have any thoughts? Muchas gracias. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Open C down half a step. It's around here somewheres. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Ah yes. Found it. Sorry for that. For those of you interested, ginandcigarettes posted this awhile back: Well, I took a listen/viewing last night and the first thing I can say is it's not in open C. Well, it kinda is. It's in open C tuned down a step so it's really open Bb. Tuning (low to high) would be: Bb F Bb F Bb D The chords are pretty easy in this tuning especially if you don't worry about thirds (theory geeks will understand). You can get most of the chords (as indeed Tweedy does) by barring the middle four strings at the appropriate frets: Bb (open -- make sure to let the lowest -- 6th -- string ring out)F (7th fret)Gm (9th fret)Eb (5th fret)C (2nd fret)Eb (5th fret) I transcribe more later (I have to get back to work) but this should get you started. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhc Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Ah yes. Found it. Sorry for that. For those of you interested, ginandcigarettes posted this awhile back:Well, I took a listen/viewing last night and the first thing I can say is it's not in open C. Well, it kinda is. It's in open C tuned down a step so it's really open Bb. Tuning (low to high) would be: Bb F Bb F Bb D The chords are pretty easy in this tuning especially if you don't worry about thirds (theory geeks will understand). You can get most of the chords (as indeed Tweedy does) by barring the middle four strings at the appropriate frets: Bb (open -- make sure to let the lowest -- 6th -- string ring out)F (7th fret)Gm (9th fret)Eb (5th fret)C (2nd fret)Eb (5th fret) I transcribe more later (I have to get back to work) but this should get you started. Cheers Hmmm, except that open Bb at the 9th fret is G major, not G minor. Seems like it would be better to fret the 2nd and 4th stings at the 2nd fret and leave he others open. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 well, you could just tune the D up to an F and all your third issues would be solved. of course, you end up with 3 sets of parallel fifths. unless that's what you're looking for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hmmm, except that open Bb at the 9th fret is G major, not G minor. Seems like it would be better to fret the 2nd and 4th stings at the 2nd fret and leave he others open. Sigh. The chords are pretty easy in this tuning especially if you don't worry about thirds (theory geeks will understand). You can get most of the chords (as indeed Tweedy does) by barring the middle four strings at the appropriate frets: The Theory: The middle four strings are just fifths and firsts so when you're playing the middle four at the ninth fret in open Bb you're playing D G D G, which is neither major nor minor (it is often called a G5 chord) as it is missing a third. It's equilivalent to the three-note power chord we all love. I called it Gm since that's how the chord functions and so you could compare it to the standard tuning chords (which Jay is playing with a capo on the third fret). The Evidence: Watch the tape. He's clearly barring on the ninth fret there. Even More Evidence: Play it, it sounds right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhc Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sigh. The Theory: The middle four strings are just fifths and firsts so when you're playing the middle four at the ninth fret in open Bb you're playing D G D G, which is neither major nor minor Right. And If I had actually read your post, I would have caught that. My bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Right. And If I had actually read your post, I would have caught that. My bad. Tee-hee. Sorry, I was being especially pissy -- bad day at work. I'm marginally better now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhc Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Tee-hee. Sorry, I was being especially pissy -- bad day at work. I'm marginally better now. No worries - I recommend this: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
groselicain Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I don't know guys, I don't think any of this is right. I agree that the low E is tuned to Bb. However, I don't believe the tuning, the chord fingerings, or anything is correct. If you guys look at Jeff's hand, he's not barring the whole neck. He's also not getting the voicings this tuning produces. He's just playing root-fifth-octaves. I could be going too far out on a limb here, but I doubt he wrote the song just using root-fifth-octaves, so I'm guessing the tuning would allow him to give both major and minor voicings. Also, the chorus part of C-Cm doesn't play correctly in this tuning. In the video, Jeff frets the root with his middle finger, and i think he plays two more notes below that. When I position my hand like his, I'm not getting those notes. Aside from just not sounding right, my other reason is my disagreement with the Fifth argument made by ginandcigarettes. I think the rule is, unless it says minor, the chord is assumed major-- unless it's explained that chord names reflect intended tonality, and the only chord that can be used in that situation is the 5 chord that you mentioned. That part's more nit-picky and doesn't really matter because, there's obviously that loophole. But I think the tuning's definitely wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhc Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Dont you make ginandcigarettes all pissy again... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Oh, I'm pissy all of the time. Anyhoo, I'm perfectly open to being quite wrong about this as I spent all of 15 minutes doing the most rudimentary transcription possible (most of this time was spent tuning my guitar to open C and then to open Bb when I realized that it was not in open C despite what Jeff Tweedy said in the director's commentary). WARNING: Long, painful, boring post to follow. Skip to the last paragraph for the point. Still, to be perfectly clear Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Groo Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 My head is spinning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 My head is spinning. You're experiencing what is known as the "ginandcigarettes effect," wherein massive amounts of information obscure the dawning realization that I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
froggie Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 X 0 . . . 0===========. . . . . .-----------. . 2 1 3 .-----------. . . . . .-----------. . . . . . Where the numbers refer to the fingers. I know this from standing 5 feet away from him at 5 of his recent solo shows. What might look a lot like he's fingering an Amaj7 is, in fact, just how he plays an A chord. All that to say, what he appears to be fingering, may not be what he's actually fretting. no wonder he confuses the hell out of me when he plays Wait Up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
groselicain Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I think you could have saved a lot of time and trouble by just typing the last three sentences. All I said was I don't think the transcription is right because it doesn't sound right, and that what you're saying doesn't line up with the video. I wasn't trying to step on any toes, and I certainly wasn't looking for the response I got. I may be in the wrong by saying this, but I think you're taking some of this a little too seriously. There's no reason to try drag up as many mistakes in my post as you possibly can; for example, the C-Cm/Eb-Ebm thing -- If you want to get nitpicky, we're both wrong since Chord names must be relative to standard tuning, not the tuning used in the transcription. I was thinking about Jay's part, you were thinking of Jeff's part. The point is, we both knew what we were talking about. As for this- I think the rule is, unless it says minor, the chord is assumed major-- unless it's explained that chord names reflect intended tonality, and the only chord that can be used in that situation is the 5 chord that you mentionedit means exactly what it says: Any chord that is not minor is major. I know that the third or flatted third determines whether the chord is major or minor. I am saying that I am almost positive, however, that you can't have neutral chords, which is what you're essentially trying to tell me. Also, the issue of the actual chords formed by Jay's use of voice-leading on piano in the Album version isn't even an issue. Why did you bring it up? I think we should both just spend our time positively and figure the song out, not ways to try and attack one another. I'm sorry if I upset you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I think we should both just spend our time positively and figure the song out, not ways to try and attack one another. I'm sorry if I upset you. Apparently, you're not used to my sense of humor, which is to say you are part of 99.999% of humanity (add more 9's at your leisure). No offense was taken, nor was any meant. My letter was a long exercise in entertaining myself in public as I am wont to do, while simultaneously avoiding real work, also as I am wont to do (much as I am doing right now). I may be in the wrong by saying this, but I think you're taking some of this a little too seriously This might be the funniest thing I have ever heard (at least today... you know, not uttered by me... ). As far as taking things too seriously, you have stumbled onto my middle name (phrase?), but again, I'm just having fun (I choose to ignore the distinction between seriousness and fun much as I ignore the distinction between entertainment and intellectual masturbation). I generally take everything too seriously, starting with myself and ending somewhere in the debate between spaceship Voltron and lion Voltron. The desired reaction to my post is general head-shaking along with a chuckle and the utterance of the phrase "ginandcigarettes, stop being such a f#ckwad." But I'll settle for an exasperated sigh and the omission of anthrax being mailed to my home. No worries, we can have a beer later? The point is, we both knew what we were talking about I rarely know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Groo Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Soooo....how do you play the song like Jeff does on the DVD? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 and ending somewhere in the debate between spaceship Voltron and lion Voltron. I'm with Groo. How the heck can I play it?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I'm with Groo. How the heck can I play it?? Here we go: Well, I took another look and listen last night and came to the conclusion that I was about 67% right. (1) The tuning was, in my estimation, right -- Open Bb (low to high Bb F Bb F Bb D) -- I tried a bunch of other tunings and this one seemed to match up the best. (2) The chord names were right (ignoring whether to write chords as they sound or as they function). (3) The voicings were not correct. I think I was fooled by just how fricking loud Jay Bennett Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Groo Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Wow, nice job. I appreciate you guys taking the time out to figure this out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 No shit. A million thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
groselicain Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hey man, I can see now that this was all just a misunderstanding. I just wasn't sure how to react, but now I see. Thanks for responding when most would've probably re-flamed. Anyway, good work on the tab, I'm going to try it later today, but from the looks of it I think it's a lot better now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ginandcigarettes Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Hey man, I can see now that this was all just a misunderstanding. I just wasn't sure how to react, but now I see. Thanks for responding when most would've probably re-flamed. Anyway, good work on the tab, I'm going to try it later today, but from the looks of it I think it's a lot better now. Hey, thanks, buddy. Yeah, the sarcasm can get pretty thick around here. Thanks for keeping me honest (I was a little kind to myself when I claimed 67% accuracy). I would have probably never corrected my mistakes without your push, so thanks for that. Anyway, try out the tab, see if it agrees with you. If it doesn't, post a correction or say what sounds wrong -- we'll get the whole thing tabbed right eventually. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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