The baseball thread

[parisisstale]

I need to throw this in, too: How in all that is sacred do White Sox fans put up with the utter inanity that is Hawk Harrelson and his co-boob? These two are beyond being homers.

 

They consistently bash the officiating when "they" don't get a call, even so far as to bitch about separate strike zones and arguing the validity of balls/strikes.

 

I had forgotten how much these guys blow at calling games. Not to mention the juvenile "he gone" and "you can put it on the boarrrrrrd....YES!" crap.

 

I was fortunate to get the NESN feed on Friday and Fox pretty much takes care of making sure I don't get to watch the Red Sox on Saturdays.

 

Seriously, do White Sox fans turn the volume off for each game?

 

http://www.heavethehawk.com/

 

Always looking for new members.

[Beltmann]

The Brewers don't have a bad TV crew, but sometimes I'll turn the TV volume down and listen to the radio broadcasters instead. There's nothing specifically wrong with Bill Schroeder and Daron Sutton, but they don't have nearly the personality of Bob Uecker.

[Edie]

Seriously, do White Sox fans turn the volume off for each game?

 

No. We have the guys we have, though I prefer Ed Farmer on the radio.

 

And my sox are dark pink, not light pink, after this series. Sadly, I missed the entire thing.

[MrRain422]

God, Hawk and DJ drive me absolutely crazy. At first I thought it was just because I was rooting against the Sox (and the first time I watched them was when they were playing the Tigers). But gradually I realized that those guys really are horrible, way beyond simply being for the team that I'm rooting against. I hate most sports broadcasters, but those guys are the worst, hands down. Hawk is even worse than Joe Morgan or Tim McCarver (although it's pretty close).

Edited July 10, 2006 by MrRain422

[Lammycat]

The Brewers don't have a bad TV crew, but sometimes I'll turn the TV volume down and listen to the radio broadcasters instead. There's nothing specifically wrong with Bill Schroeder and Daron Sutton, but they don't have nearly the personality of Bob Uecker.

Does Vin Scully still do Dodgers games? I could listen to that cat call a game all day. Folks like Harry Caray and Curt Gowdy and Phil Ruzzuto and Jack Buck were excellent at radio announcing (Caray was pretty good in the T.V. booth for the Cubs, too). I might get one of those sateelite radio packages next season to be able to tune in to some radio broadcasters.

[Edie]

Hawk is even worse than Joe Morgan or Tim McCarver (although it's pretty close).

 

No, you are wrong. While Hawk and his little sayings can be ultra-annoying, he does know what is going on on the field, unlike McCarver et al. Hawk certainly lives/breathes the team, and therefore points out the little things that help to make the game interesting.

[Lammycat]

No, you are wrong. While Hawk and his little sayings can be ultra-annoying, he does know what is going on on the field, unlike McCarver et al. Hawk certainly lives/breathes the team, and therefore points out the little things that help to make the game interesting.

I find he's more a distraction to what's going on down on the field. His pointed bias clouds his perception of accurately calling the game. Really, is it appropriate to be second-guessing the umpire everytime a call goes against "the good guys?" It's a distraction, IMO.

 

While McCarver annoys the tar out of me too (don't mean to be bitching so much, it's just...there) and will inevitably find a way to extol the awesome-ness of the Yankees no matter what game he's calling. He knows the game, though.

[MrRain422]

Does Vin Scully still do Dodgers games? I could listen to that cat call a game all day.

 

 

I agree. Scully is awesome. Last year we had the Extra Innings Pass and I watched Dodgers games all the time, pretty much just because of Scully. He doesn't even need a color guy -- he handles it all himself. Sort of reminded me of Ernie Harwell, who I grew up listening to. I miss Ernie's broadcasts.

 

No, you are wrong. While Hawk and his little sayings can be ultra-annoying, he does know what is going on on the field, unlike McCarver et al. Hawk certainly lives/breathes the team, and therefore points out the little things that help to make the game interesting.

 

He makes the game far less interesting, IMO. Yes, he's a huge fan of the team, but that doesn't always make it a more enjoyable broadcast.

 

He adds exactly nothing as far as knowledge of the game goes (I'm not saying he doesn't have knowledge of the game, I'm just saying, if he does, he rarely expresses it). Listening to him broadcast a game strikes me as being exactly what it would be like to grab any old schlub off the street who happens to be a big fan and throw him into the broadcast booth. He is completely incapable of seeing the action on the field for what it is rather than how he wants it to be. If the Sox are losing, he won't even speak for innings at a time because he is too busy moping. His catch phrases make up probably 90% of what he says, and the rest of the time he is busy complaining about the umping or talking about how some particular player is the best at something (usually something completely inane).

 

McCarver knows what's going on on the field just as well as Hawk does (and arguably knows more about the game). The problem with McCarver is that he is probably clinically retarded, and for some reason thinks that whatever other random thoughts that he has are more interesting than the game. Don't get me wrong -- I really hate McCarver as a broadcaster -- but I just don't think that Harrelson has a single redeeming quality. McCarver at least enjoys the game (although he usually expresses it in the most annoying way possible). Hawk may enjoy the game, but if the Sox aren't winning, then who can tell? His entire schtick consists of a ton of hokey catchphrases piled on top absurd claims about how great the Sox are (this would be slightly less annoying if he focused on areas in which they were actually good, or if he provided any evidence for his claims--most of his claims in this area involve things that are either unproveable, completely meaningless, or flat out untrue) as well as whining and whining and whining when something doesn't go the Sox way.

[Edie]

I find he's more a distraction to what's going on down on the field. His pointed bias clouds his perception of accurately calling the game. Really, is it appropriate to be second-guessing the umpire everytime a call goes against "the good guys?" It's a distraction, IMO.

 

While McCarver annoys the tar out of me too (don't mean to be bitching so much, it's just...there) and will inevitably find a way to extol the awesome-ness of the Yankees no matter what game he's calling. He knows the game, though.

 

I meant that McCarver et al don't (and can't possibly) know the nuances of every player on every team. It's like football when one week your team is on MNF with their announcers vs. the ones that you get on Sunday afternoon that know your team. Huuuge difference. McCarver certainly knows the game, but he doesn't really know all the players -- their histories and tendencies past a bunch of stats on the screen.

 

When the Sox were in the WS last year, if the delay hadn't been so glaring, we'dve listened to the radio feed.

[Reni]

without cable anymore - we only get to see a handful of games on the TV. This is quite a switch from the daily baseball watching we got used to over the last year. However, we enjoyed a long afternoon on the patio with Ed Farmer. He and Chris Singleton are a lot of fun to listen to. I worked on sanding a table most of the afternoon while listening and then it was a joy to sit out as the sun set, sipping a soda, listening to baseball on the radio. I could learn to LOVE this.

 

I agree Hawk pretty much sucks and DJ is a bit of a wet mop.

 

And I never said the White Sox were better than the Tigers. Hats off to the Tigers.....if the White Sox can't make it all the way, I'd love to see the Tigers win it all.

 

--

 

I need to add that I find it refreshing when announcers SHUT THE FUCK UP for awhile.....I don't wanna hear them gab every freakin second of a game. The WGN guys are terrible in this respect.....Hawk sucks and he rambles about nonsense, but he at least shuts up now and again.

[cryptique]

I understand perfectly why people don't like Hawk and DJ, but it's inaccurate to portray them as strict "homers" who think every call against the Sox is a bad call. They are the first ones to point out when a call goes the wrong way, regardless of which team was affected by it, and I can't remember the last time they tried to convince me that a correct call against the Sox was incorrect.

 

I really prefer the local announcers to be pro-home team. It would bother me if the game were on ESPN and it was that way, but those guys are the White Sox broadcast team. Deal with it. I have to watch the Tigers team over here, and they have at least as much of a pro-Tigers bias as Hawk and DJ. Are they less obnoxious? Sure ... though I would call it "more bland."

 

Hawk overuses his pet phrases, sure. DJ is a less interesting version of Tom Paciorek, this is also true. But they know their shit, and that's all I ask of an announcer.

 

You want to talk about an announcer who distracted from the game? The grand champion in that department was named Harry Caray -- at least when he was with the Cubs. (When he was younger, he was terrific.)

[Reni]

oh man, the WGN/Cubs people are still distracted a good portion of the time......there would be entire at bats missed because we had to see yet some other vantage point of Wrigley field. From the Bud Light Bleachers, From the rooftop decks, from the hot dog stand across the street, from the point of view of some dude on a bicycle......I wonder if their camera guy gets fed up from having to walk all over Wrigleyville........

 

And then the announcers just babble on about bullshit half the time and miss calls, etc........

[MrRain422]

I really prefer the local announcers to be pro-home team. It would bother me if the game were on ESPN and it was that way, but those guys are the White Sox broadcast team. Deal with it. I have to watch the Tigers team over here, and they have at least as much of a pro-Tigers bias as Hawk and DJ. Are they less obnoxious? Sure ... though I would call it "more bland."

 

Of course the local broadcasters are going to be in favor of their team, but there's a difference between rooting for their team to succeed and thinking that any call that goes against them is wrong.

 

As for the Tigers guys, yeah, they're pretty boring. Mario Impemba does the job pretty well I guess, but isn't very exciting. Rod Allen can be pretty entertaining from time to time, but he also occassionally has trouble expressing his thoughts clearly, and from time to time will come out of nowhere with something totally whacky that makes no sense at all. They aren't as homerish as Hawk and DJ though -- not even close. They're bland, but not irritating, and their comments at least usually do reflect what actually happened on the field.

[bobbob1313]

The Marlins have one of the best Play by Play guys (IMO) in Tommy Hutton. He really knows his stuff, and while he can be a homer, he's generally going to call out any bad or good call regardless of outcome.

 

The color guy we have this year is hysterical. He's absolutely insane. When Dontrelle passed Brad Penny as the Marlins' most winning pitcher this year, he screamed out "BRAD PENNY, REST IN PEACE". And when Dan Uggla hit a home run the other day, he randomly says "HIS NAME IS UGGLA!". The guy is completely insane. But he's a lot of fun. Doesn't add anything to the broadcast, but he's always interesting.

[Lammycat]

I understand perfectly why people don't like Hawk and DJ, but it's inaccurate to portray them as strict "homers" who think every call against the Sox is a bad call. They are the first ones to point out when a call goes the wrong way, regardless of which team was affected by it, and I can't remember the last time they tried to convince me that a correct call against the Sox was incorrect.

Did you watch today's game? Hawk was claiming that the ump had a large strike zone for CHI pitchers and a small zone for BOS pitchers. He expressed disatisfaction over balls and strikes throughout the game when they were called against CHI wrongly, according to Hawk. If this isn't the epitome of homer-ism, I'm not sure what is.

 

After Iguchi popped a bunt up in the air today for an out, he made a comment along the lines of (sic)"if he were in Japan the manager would call him into the clubhouse and smack him in the head."

What the hell is that? The guy's a clown.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Lammycat

[Reni]

the Sox radio guys had similar comments about the strikezone.

[cryptique]

Of course the local broadcasters are going to be in favor of their team, but there's a difference between rooting for their team to succeed and thinking that any call that goes against them is wrong.

And again I say, that's an unfair characterization of Hawk and DJ. I've watched Hawk for at least 15 years and he's always been quick to point out good and bad calls on both sides...

 

Did you watch today's game? Hawk was claiming that the ump had a large strike zone for CHI pitchers and a small zone for BOS pitchers. He expressed disatisfaction over balls and strikes throughout the game when they were called against CHI wrongly, according to Hawk. If this isn't the epitome of homer-ism, I'm not sure what is.

He's merely expressing what every other White Sox fan is thinking. There are days when the roles are reversed, and Hawk can be counted on to point out that the Sox pitchers are getting a favorable strike zone compared to the other team's pitchers.

 

You're only seeing what you want to see with Hawk because you're obviously biased against the guy.

 

I can understand not liking his personality or his catchphrases (I'm tired of many of those myself), but if you hate him for his bias you're only showing your own.

[ction]

I only caught the last 8 or 9 innings of yesterday's Sox vs. Sox game, so I'm not an expert on the Chicago announcers. But anyone who refers to a team they're not a member of as "us" or "we" is a fucking douchebag. That goes for ex-players, announcers, and especially fans.

[cryptique]

I only caught the last 8 or 9 innings of yesterday's Sox vs. Sox game, so I'm not an expert on the Chicago announcers. But anyone who refers to a team they're not a member of as "us" or "we" is a fucking douchebag. That goes for ex-players, announcers, and especially fans.

Agreed. I certainly won't defend Hawk on that one. He was once the general manager of the team, and I wouldn't have held it against him then -- but that was a long time ago.

 

And yes, especially fans. If you refer to the team you root for with plural first-person pronouns, you need to get a life.

 

(I've done it too, and I cringe every time I notice it.)

[myboyblue]

I know I'm partial to the White Sox but I can't understand the bashing of Hawk. The guy has a great deal of insight for the game. Hit 'catch phrases' are extremely popular and that is part of announcing. He's definitely a bit of a homer but he's the White Sox announcer. White Sox fans make up about 90% of who he is talking to. He's a fan and he doesn't hide it.

 

As far as him saying "we" when referring to the White Sox, as Cryptique mentioned, he's been a part of the team for most of his adult life. I think it's fitting.

[Lammycat]

You're only seeing what you want to see with Hawk because you're obviously biased against the guy.

 

I can understand not liking his personality or his catchphrases (I'm tired of many of those myself), but if you hate him for his bias you're only showing your own.

I'm seeing only what I want to see? The man has an official club in his honor that calls for his removal. I have absolutely no reason to be "biased" against the guy. I've watched CHI games not involving the Red Sox and would state exactly the same points I've made. I realize you and other CHI fans might get a bit defensive of the guy since he's "your" guy, but all I'm saying is that in my opinion, he's a shitty announcer. FWIW, George Frasier for the Rockies blows as well, just for different reasons. I have no personal bias against him, either.

[Lammycat]

Hit 'catch phrases' are extremely popular and that is part of announcing.

Hit catch phrases are popular are popular on espn.

 

He's definitely a bit of a homer but he's the White Sox announcer. White Sox fans make up about 90% of who he is talking to. He's a fan and he doesn't hide it.

 

Listen to some other announcers from around the league. Most of them try, and do a decent job, to see the game as objectively as possible and leave the majority of subjectiveness out of it. We all know that if they work for the team, chances are they are rooting for the team. I don't want a fan-boy in the booth, but someone who can objectively relay the game to me so I can learn something new. Also, with the Extra Innings package, I'm willing to bet that it's lower than 90% of CHI fans he's reaching. It appeared from the t.v. coverage that there were a large contingent of Red Sox fans in CHI over the weekend, too.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Lammycat

[darkstar]

The Hawk is a douchebag, no doubt. I remember him calling Red Sox games when I was a kid for channel 38 outta Boston, and I didn't like him then. He's gotten worse over the years. That "He gone" shit he does is innane and simply stupid. However...keep in mind that the team has ultimate approval over who calls their games and obviously Chisox mgmt likes him. You have to expect some bias on the home teams play by play guys. I'm sure all us Bosox fans will remember the great Johnny Most who called Celtics games forever. That guy was one of the worst "homer" play by play guys ever. Larry Bird would virtually mug a guy on the court and Most would be calling into question the ref's eyesight, character, and mother. Meanwhile any opposing player making the slightest contact would have Most screaming about how the guy ought to be tossed out of the game etc, etc

 

The Hawk is pretty much just doing his job. If he starts loosing viewers the ratings will show it and they'll get someone else.

 

In my opinion the worst guys are Buck, McCarver, and Morgan. They (Buck, McCarver) were basically calling out Manny Ramierez on national tv because he isn't going to the All Star game. Thats their opinion and they should keep it to themselves. It's obvious they have absolutely no respect for the Red Sox. Never have...McCarver has George Steinbrenner's dick so far down his throat it's a wonder he can breathe.

[ction]

Even the best TV guys still pretty much blow and take away from the game. Since I can see what's going on (it's TV, remember), I don't need to listen to someone yapping incessently throughout the entire game. That's what radio guys do, and even they don't seem to talk quite as much.

 

During football season, I end up turning the sound off on Fox at least 4 or 5 times a year because the guys just won't shut the hell up. Give me a few mikes on the field, and let me hear the PA guy. That's it.

[cryptique]

Even the best TV guys still pretty much blow and take away from the game. Since I can see what's going on (it's TV, remember), I don't need to listen to someone yapping incessently throughout the entire game. That's what radio guys do, and even they don't seem to talk quite as much.

No argument here. Whether or not a TV announcer is "good," he's largely unnecessary and should spend most of the game with his mouth shut.

 

During football season, I end up turning the sound off on Fox at least 4 or 5 times a year because the guys just won't shut the hell up. Give me a few mikes on the field, and let me hear the PA guy. That's it.

Plus, when you turn the sound down on Fox you don't have to hear the stupid fucking "whoosh" sound every time one of their graphics moves on or off the screen. I hate, hate, HATE Fox sports telecasts.