Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Now I'm more into Jackie McLean, Horace Silver. Hard bop, and what I guess you could call soul jazz is more my thing these days. There is so much great stuff out there...not just from the classic era, but recent too. I work at a desk all day, and need to listen to something to distract my mind from other noises (passing cars, noisy co-workers, etc.), so I listen to a fair amount of instrumental stuff, mainly jazz. This morning, I've already heard some Lee Morgan, Thelonius Monk, Eric Dolphy and Cannonball Adderley. I'm thinking I may listen to some Larry Young and Charles Kynard later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Sarah singing Lullaby of Birdland w/ Clifford Brown on trumpet. Swoon! Good stuff. I'm not a big fan of jazz vocals. I won't be surprised if that changes, though. My tastes in jazz have been changing as it is. When I got into jazz, my focus was on Coltrane and the Impulse universe. More abrasive types of things, I suppose. Now I'm more into Jackie McLean, Horace Silver. Hard bop, and what I guess you could call soul jazz is more my thing these days. I guess it's no different with pop or rock. I used to be heavily into punk, then '60s/70s guitar hero type of shit, then indie rock, then whatever, etc., but now I'm more into music that more heavily leans on vocal melodies, and tends to be female fronted...which will perhaps be the wedge that opens the door to vocal jazz.As you get older ones tastes do change. Since I am getting really old I guess they have really changed but most new music (not specifically jazz) leaves me cold. I am particularly disillusioned with most indie rock (and not even going near mainstream pop which is totally suckola) which has omcpletely lost both its soul (not as in soul music) and any semblance of either originality or conversely listenability. I am really becoming like a broken record on this too, so feel free to ignore this. But when the cream of the indie rock crowd have moved from taking old unused Woody Guthrie lyrics to make songs to unused Bob Dylan lyrics to make songs we are in big trouble. (See the other thread.) We are all very fortunate that the jazz catalogue is way way deep. I have always loved traditional/early jazz and now more so than ever. These were guys who could not read music (some could) were not trained in school (some were marginally), learned completely on their own because jazz was new. What they accomplished was remarkable. I am not just talking about Louis Armstrong, but the entire cast of characters from 1900-1935. Amazing stuff. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I don't listen to much vocal jazz and when I do it is usually older big band stuff (Count Basie, etc). One recent release by Dave Douglas has vocals on it - Be Still - very good stuff, the record is a tribute to his mother who passed away recently, so it's pretty spiritual/traditional type stuff. The vocalist comes from a blue grass back ground, I guess, honestly I never heard of her prior to purchasing Be Still; also really like the record cover. Also, with regards to singing, a lot Steve Lacy (Ellery Eskelin, too) stuff has 'singing' on it but the vocalist uses her voice as more of an instrument (she doesn't necessarily sings lyrics) - really have to be in the mood for it, but when I am, it sounds pretty cool. Lastly, I will be hitting Constellation (somewhat new Chicago jazz venue) tonight for a show - haven't been to it yet, so I am looking forward to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I have always loved traditional/early jazz and now more so than ever. These were guys who could not read music (some could) were not trained in school (some were marginally), learned completely on their own because jazz was new. What they accomplished was remarkable. I am not just talking about Louis Armstrong, but the entire cast of characters from 1900-1935. Amazing stuff. LouieBLou, do you have any particular favorites from that era who you would consider essential? I used to have a few tracks from the Hot Fives, but was always turned off by the sheer lack of fidelity. Beyond that, my pre-1930s jazz collection is remarkably thin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 We are all very fortunate that the jazz catalogue is way way deep.LouieBWe are very fortunate for that, indeed. I would even take it one further, for myself at least, in that I can't think of a single jazz recoding that I'm burned out on. Even with something I've heard countless times, like Kind of Blue, or some of Monk's stuff, or even Time Out, I find new treasures hidden within those records every time I listen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 We are very fortunate for that, indeed. I would even take it one further, for myself at least, in that I can't think of a single jazz recoding that I'm burned out on. Even with something I've heard countless times, like Kind of Blue, or some of Monk's stuff, or even Time Out, I find new treasures hidden within those records every time I listen.Same here - this is pretty much why enjoy listening to jazz more so then other types of music, because I hear something different each time I hear a tune that I have listened to countless times (same reason that I enjoy the Grateful Dead). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 astly, I will be hitting Constellation (somewhat new Chicago jazz venue) tonight for a show - haven't been to it yet, so I am looking forward to that. I have missed more great stuff at Constellation than I have seen. It really is a great place. I would say that just about any show there is worth seeing. Edit. I missed that you were going this weekend. Who did you see?Lou, do you have any particular favorites from that era who you would consider essential? I used to have a few tracks from the Hot Fives, but was always turned off by the sheer lack of fidelity. Beyond that, my pre-1930s jazz collection is remarkably thin.First off you have to fill in the sonic blanks on pre-30s jazz. Needless to say the Hot Fives and Sevens, Jelly Roll Morton, Bennie Moten, Fletcher Henderson, etc. If you can stand it the King Oliver sides. Early Sidney Bechet and Earl Hines. Bix Beiderbecke and early Duke Ellington Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey!! But if fidelity is really a problem you won't ever like this stuff. When I used to play it when my kids were younger they always called it cartoon music because alot of the early black and white cartoons used that kind of music. Actually the Jelly Roll Morton sides are remarkably clear. Amazingly so. I do think it is an acquired taste. We have come a long way from this stuff, nearly 100 years. Get a couple comps and check stuff out and discard it if you like. Well actually I guess there is tons of stuff on YouTube that is just numbers with pictures. Sorry about my little rant before. I know St. Vincent is trying hard. But sometimes I think she is trying too hard. (St. Vincent is just filling in for all the current crop of indie rockers and I actually kind of like her. I just wonder if she could be a bit more icy...) LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have missed more great stuff at Constellation than I have seen. It really is a great place. I would say that just about any show there is worth seeing. Edit. I missed that you were going this weekend. Who did you see? Wrack and Ballister - interesting show - two completely different styles of bands made for a nice evening. Reed did a great job with the bar area and the venue is great, also - enjoy the stadium like seating all around the floor and it's great that the bands set up directly on the floor, so you can look down onto them, rather than the normal looking up at a stage. I had a whole different perspective watching Paal Nilssen-Love play the drums. Also, Dave Rempis got even smarter and installed a credit card swiper on his phone - I spent a bit of dough on cds Lastly, I guess that vinyl has hit the jazz world - lots of it on the table, mostly releases of Paal's. I was talking to Rempis about it and he said they are just riding the wave like the rest and people are buying it -- we talked about the cost and he understood, but then said it is a bitch traveling the country with all the gear, cds, shirts, ect., plus now records all crammed in a van.I suppose records need to be taken better care of (in transit) then other merchandise. He told me that he only recently bought a record player - so I don't feel too bad about not yet having one. Ballister latest release in only on vinyl --- it took some restraint, but I didn't get it. Also, Rempis and Paal both started their own record labels and are putting out their own (and others) stuff -- Vandermark is also starting one, his shows he did at the Green Mill last month will be his first release on his new label. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 First off you have to fill in the sonic blanks on pre-30s jazz. Needless to say the Hot Fives and Sevens, Jelly Roll Morton, Bennie Moten, Fletcher Henderson, etc. If you can stand it the King Oliver sides. Early Sidney Bechet and Earl Hines. Bix Beiderbecke and early Duke Ellington Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey!! But if fidelity is really a problem you won't ever like this stuff. When I used to play it when my kids were younger they always called it cartoon music because alot of the early black and white cartoons used that kind of music. Actually the Jelly Roll Morton sides are remarkably clear. Amazingly so. I used to have some Jelly Roll and Sidney Bechet, but moved it to an external hard drive which subsequently crashed, and I have yet to get it restored or replaced. I have some Scott Joplin material, too, although it might have been recorded by someone else. Not sure, My ex used to refer to that early jazz as "cartoon music" too. Of course, it DID get used a lot in the early cartoons, but still... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Wrack and Ballister - interesting show - two completely different styles of bands made for a nice evening. Reed did a great job with the bar area and the venue is great, also - enjoy the stadium like seating all around the floor and it's great that the bands set up directly on the floor, so you can look down onto them, rather than the normal looking up at a stage. I had a whole different perspective watching Paal Nilssen-Love play the drums. Also, Dave Rempis got even smarter and installed a credit card swiper on his phone - I spent a bit of dough on cds Lastly, I guess that vinyl has hit the jazz world - lots of it on the table, mostly releases of Paal's. I was talking to Rempis about it and he said they are just riding the wave like the rest and people are buying it -- we talked about the cost and he understood, but then said it is a bitch traveling the country with all the gear, cds, shirts, ect., plus now records all crammed in a van. I suppose records need to be taken better care of (in transit) then other merchandise. He told me that he only recently bought a record player - so I don't feel too bad about not yet having one. Ballister latest release in only on vinyl --- it took some restraint, but I didn't get it. Also, Rempis and Paal both started their own record labels and are putting out their own (and others) stuff -- Vandermark is also starting one, his shows he did at the Green Mill last month will be his first release on his new label.Glad you made it up there. A haul for you, but worth it. It is a short trip for me (about 15 minutes) but I still don't get there enough. I got RRempis' first two CDs. Both were very good. I plan to get the next two as well if I don't forget. Vinyl is way more difficult to take care of if you are on the road in a van. It must be maddening. I bought a cheap copy of Kelly Hogan's LP (the first one I got sounded like crap new) because Neko's van or bus apparently had a leak. Let me know if there are other shows you are going to and I will try and make some. On Fillmore is playing a Monday night, which might be the wrong night for you. I used to have some Jelly Roll and Sidney Bechet, but moved it to an external hard drive which subsequently crashed, and I have yet to get it restored or replaced. I have some Scott Joplin material, too, although it might have been recorded by someone else. Not sure, My ex used to refer to that early jazz as "cartoon music" too. Of course, it DID get used a lot in the early cartoons, but still...Joplin did not record himself because he was a bit early. It was possible that he could have been on early recordings, but mostly he composed and others have recorded in the last 100 years. I don know know of any records he made directly, but could be very wrong. There is an excellent version of the 1923 King Oliver sides (http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_34&products_id=85) from Off the Record through Archeophone, but again unless you are willing to brave the pre-electric recordings which are much less vibrant than even the Hot Fives or the Morton sides which are early electric, you are going to be frustrated. But these are some of the greatest early recordings in jazz history so I think they are worth it. Considering the wealth of great recordings in the mid-1930s through the present day, if you don't check out the "golden age" I am not too shocked, but there is some cool stuff from those years but again, an acquired taste. Aficionados of that period (the R. Crumbs of the world) think there was nothing better for mere mortals like us, I do understand. Heck there are those among us who won't even brave the 30s and 40s, much less the early 30s and the jazz age of the 1920s. This posting only proves what a horrid unfocused music fan I am discussing both Dave Rempis and King Oliver. Sheesh. (If you miss my R&B Flashback show, one more cheap plug) you will see the same goes for my interest in that type of music. No focus and often totally off the mark.) LoueiB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Joplin did not record himself because he was a bit early. It was possible that he could have been on early recordings, but mostly he composed and others have recorded in the last 100 years. I don know know of any records he made directly, but could be very wrong. There is an excellent version of the 1923 King Oliver sides (http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_34&products_id=85) from Off the Record through Archeophone, but again unless you are willing to brave the pre-electric recordings which are much less vibrant than even the Hot Fives or the Morton sides which are early electric, you are going to be frustrated. But these are some of the greatest early recordings in jazz history so I think they are worth it. Considering the wealth of great recordings in the mid-1930s through the present day, if you don't check out the "golden age" I am not too shocked, but there is some cool stuff from those years but again, an acquired taste. Aficionados of that period (the R. Crumbs of the world) think there was nothing better for mere mortals like us, I do understand. Heck there are those among us who won't even brave the 30s and 40s, much less the early 30s and the jazz age of the 1920s. LoueiBI am pretty sure it was a (mostly) uncredited person playing the Scott Joplin songs solo on piano, but I have it on my iTunes at home, so it's hard to say....would have to look it up, and am too lazy. I'll have to check out the King Oliver sides, as I will likely enjoy them...I play enough music at work on my iMac that the volume is low and thus the fidelity can be quite low without it bothering me. No one has ever accused me of being an audiophile. Of course, I have probably heard some of the 1920s material while watching Boardwalk Empire, too, but some of those versions might be remakes too. Who knows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yea I don't watch Boardwalk Empire enough to know. I would imagine they use remakes because of the fidelity issues as you point out. Someone once did a study of the early recordings and discovered that the bands slowed down or speeded up during recording to a significant degree. Musicians are so much better now, but these guys were mostly untrained musicians, which makes what they did pretty amazing. Looks like we have lost everyone....Talking about 1920s and 1930s jazz is totally unhip. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I was listening to Dave Douglas's Strange Liberation the other day. I found myself thinking it was enjoyable enough, but I didn't need to own it anymore and that I'd list it on Amazon, but then a Bill Frisell solo came along that was so mind-bending and bizarrely beautiful that I decided I'd keep it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Looks like we have lost everyone....Talking about 1920s and 1930s jazz is totally unhip. LouieB On the other hand, more material has recently been released from the "jazz" group Frank Zappa had in 1973...from the famous (infamous?) Roxy shows. So it shows there is still interest out there in some older material for fans of a certain type. Of course, you could make the argument that Zappa's jazz groups were really more a rock/fusion ensemble, and I don't suppose many would disagree. Still nice to hear. Speaking of that era, I see more Miles has been released. Anyone up on this stuff? The complete Fillmore shows? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 The complete Fillmore shows is intriguing. I have only bought Vol 1, which was very good, but all Miles has something to recommend it. How was the Zappa material released? Is it for download only or CD? Definitely fusion, but what the hell. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 The Zappa releases are available on CD, I don't think they are available on iTunes at this point. The newest one, Roxy by Proxy, is very good. Even better is the Road Tapes series release (RT #2) which came right before it....most of the same 1973 band but features Jean Luc Ponty on violin and some really fantastic, aggressive guitar work from FZ. Anyone wondering "where to start" with jazz...don't start there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I listened to Medeski Martin & Wood today (Combustication). Damn, I like them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 The Zappa releases are available on CD, I don't think they are available on iTunes at this point. The newest one, Roxy by Proxy, is very good. Even better is the Road Tapes series release (RT #2) which came right before it....most of the same 1973 band but features Jean Luc Ponty on violin and some really fantastic, aggressive guitar work from FZ. Anyone wondering "where to start" with jazz...don't start there. These sound really good. Will look into them and probably pull the trigger on em. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 John Coltrane passed on 50 years ago today.http://www.clashmusic.com/features/where-to-start-john-coltrane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 OH my......time flies doesn't it. That 50 year mark (half a century) keeps cropping up alot lately. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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