Van Fkkn! Halen: Hall of Famers

[EL the Famous]

And why exactly do I care what Sammy Hagar thinks about the HOF? If they were judged solely on his work with the band, there's no way Van Halen would even be considered. He may be a buffoon, but David Lee Roth is the frontman of the band when they mattered. He and Eddie are clearly the stars of the show.

 

If they even let Sammy in the room, it should be so he can serve drinks or juggle bowling pins or something.

 

I couldn't disagree more.

[jff]

Is that the problem?? thanks for clearing that up....

 

LouieB

 

well, that's what most modern hits sound like to my ears. the musical instruments are buried under a bunch of sound effects.

[LouieB]

Plus - we are once again talking about the show tunes/brill building thing vs. the blues/country thing.

Yea, I realize you aren't a big fan of artists covering others, but the history of recording artists covering songs is a significant and important part of the history of popular music and the way many musicans made a living (and in some cases a really good living, both those writing for others and singing others songs).

 

Interestingly enough I was part of a conversation with Rob from Bloodshot about this on Saturday night. He was talking about the fact that more recording artists should do covers, rather than originals, because in some cases the covers are better. He was using the example of Bloodshot's Detroit Cobras as an example of a band that does great covers of obscure soul numbers, rather than writing originals. To me, some groups should give more thought to seeking out good numbers written by others rather than producing mediocre originals.

 

LouieB

[jff]

I couldn't disagree more.

 

 

Me too. Sammy is a terrible juggler.

[LouieB]

well, that's what most modern hits sound like to my ears. the musical instruments are buried under a bunch of sound effects.

Seriously you have a point.....I hate it when it sounds like no one is actually playing on a song.

 

LouieB

[mountain bed]

To me, some groups should give more thought to seeking out good numbers written by others rather than producing mediocre originals.

 

LouieB

Aside from the fact that both Jay & Jeff have written some amazing originals, one of my favorite things about UT was their choice of covers. I wish more bands would familiarize themselves with the wealth of great music that exists out there (esp. the Smith & Lomax library). Some of the 'death ballads' would scare the pants off of the goth/dark bands that are out there.

[Analogman]

Yea, I realize you aren't a big fan of artists covering others, but the history of recording artists covering songs is a significant and important part of the history of popular music and the way many musicans made a living (and in some cases a really good living, both those writing for others and singing others songs).

 

Interestingly enough I was part of a conversation with Rob from Bloodshot about this on Saturday night. He was talking about the fact that more recording artists should do covers, rather than originals, because in some cases the covers are better. He was using the example of Bloodshot's Detroit Cobras as an example of a band that does great covers of obscure soul numbers, rather than writing originals. To me, some groups should give more thought to seeking out good numbers written by others rather than producing mediocre originals.

 

LouieB

 

That seems all the rage these days - began by the success of the Rod Stewart albums of songs from the good old days. This is how the Stones began - covering all those old blues/rock songs.

[Analogman]

Me too. Sammy is a terrible juggler.

 

 

He juggles making mediocre rock music and being a tequila salesman quite well.

[Analogman]

Speaking of VH - check Ross Halfin's blog for gems like this:

 

December 18

 

Here is a bit more mail I've had re Van Halen. I'm also getting stuff from the Roth Army Forum. I hope they don't reform - just to teach all of you sad people a lesson. Who do you think I am, Santa Claus, with glad tidings for the New Year? I did hear John Rutsey is rejoining Rush for their next summer tour...

 

Here's some bits from another example.

 

Hey Mr. Halfin,

I only have one request;

The next time you go to see Edward Van Halen, please consider me to help carry any of your gear. I don't have much money, but with enough notice I could definitely save enough to pay a fee. I would also need to know a few days in advance so I could arrange family to watch my children and to arrange for travel expenses and scheduling with work.

You have captured so many amazing celebrities and being a celebrity yourself (in my opinion) you may laugh at this request, but it doesn't hurt to try.

 

I am not even laughing. How old are you - fifteen?

 

Would you believe 42 ?!?!? The impact that Edward (and the boys) has made on music is over-looked in many circles ... not mine. I know... I sound crazy simply because... I am

 

I suggest you see a therapist...

 

I am a prime example of the word "fan"atic. It's been a life-long dream to meet the Man but I've never had the means to do so. So I'll send occasional e-mails to people that have met with him and the replies I get are written with seemingly uncontrollable laughter.

This retard isn't even worth replying to...

 

Hey pall

 

Let me tell you that I think that you are the biggest Goddamn motherfucker on this planet. If you won

[jff]

He juggles making mediocre rock music and being a tequila salesman quite well.

 

Anyone can juggle two things.

[Sir Stewart]

Speaking of VH - check Ross Halfin's blog for gems like this:

Was that in English?

[Analogman]

Was that in English?

 

wot?

[Lammycat]

Not to discredit any inductees/nominees, but isn't the concept of a HOF a bit inane? Is there specific, or even general, critieria besides being influencial and having your first album be at least 25 years old?

 

From what I've gathered it's a very small group of folks centered around Jann Wenner who nominate and elect inductees. Doesn't this speak to the personal tastes of the "board" more than the reality of the impact/relevance of the artist(s)?

 

Not to drag the thread down, but I never really took the thing seriously. Not that anybody here is having anything more than a bit of fun with the discussion, either....

[Twisted Acres]

Yea, I realize you aren't a big fan of artists covering others, but the history of recording artists covering songs is a significant and important part of the history of popular music and the way many musicans made a living (and in some cases a really good living, both those writing for others and singing others songs).

 

This is a huge and largely overlooked point. Kudos, Lou... it's pretty much how popular music as we know it and the music industry began.

[Analogman]

That's all well and fine - even The Beatles started out that way (of course) - but there comes a time to create your own thing I think.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Not to discredit any inductees/nominees, but isn't the concept of a HOF a bit inane? Is there specific, or even general, critieria besides being influencial and having your first album be at least 25 years old?

 

From what I've gathered it's a very small group of folks centered around Jann Wenner who nominate and elect inductees. Doesn't this speak to the personal tastes of the "board" more than the reality of the impact/relevance of the artist(s)?

 

Not to drag the thread down, but I never really took the thing seriously. Not that anybody here is having anything more than a bit of fun with the discussion, either....

No, I don't think anyone takes it seriously. Just like no one takes the Grammy's seriously. It's just fun when someone you like gets in.

[Sir Stewart]

wot?

It reads like a schizophrenic's thoughts, that excerpt. I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

[Analogman]

It reads like a schizophrenic's thoughts, that excerpt. I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

 

 

Oh - it's some VH freaks pestering him becasue he mentioned that he recently took some photos of VH - people want to know who's in and out, of course. That is two messages mashed together.

 

His answers are underneath the messages - I should have posted that better.

[Sir Stewart]

I get it now. Pretty funny.

[Analogman]

I actually agree with something Mr. Hagar said a few years ago - that they should do a tour with both him and Dave - each play a set - and then call it a day after the tour was over.

[LouieB]

Aside from the fact that both Jay & Jeff have written some amazing originals, one of my favorite things about UT was their choice of covers. I wish more bands would familiarize themselves with the wealth of great music that exists out there (esp. the Smith & Lomax library). Some of the 'death ballads' would scare the pants off of the goth/dark bands that are out there.

Yea, nothing like a good murder ballad to make your day......always makes mine....particularly when I am in a murderous mood....

 

This is a huge and largely overlooked point. Kudos, Lou... it's pretty much how popular music as we know it and the music industry began.

Thanks!! I know you knew that, but it bears repeating for the less informed. This is where I trot out my usual suggestion of reading The Rise and Fall of Popular Music, but frankly just about any good book on the history of popular music will tell you the same thing, songs were originally written by songwriters and sung by singers.

 

Frankly I can't tell you how many times I have seen (mostly opening) bands do an entire set of original material, only to have them end with a cover that actually kicks ass; why? because even a fair to middling version of a cover that is either familiar or of great worth in its own right, is better than run of the mill original material. Heck, we all love Wilco and their original songs, but who doesn't like hearing them cover some great song (Something in the Air, I Shall be Released, Comment, Don't Fear the Reaper.... ) As Mountain Bed points out, UT revived many songs, both old and new, and gave them a second or third life. (Hell, my daughter thinks their version of I wanna be your dog is superior to the Stooges....)

 

Billie Holiday wrote very few original songs (can anyone name one??), but she blew even the most mundane pop song out of the water. The art of singing someone else's song can't be diminished. It is an art form in and of itself. (I saw Kelly Hogan, Nora O'Connor and Scott Ligon do a caberet type set a week ago and it was a marvelous blend of old and new covers, jazz, pop and country; Rosie and I had a great time, as did the band.)

 

That's all well and fine - even The Beatles started out that way (of course) - but there comes a time to create your own thing I think.

I only half agree with this. Apropos of the thread on Emmylou Harris. Emmylou is one of the great interpreters of other people's work; but her own material is rarely more than mediocre (in the true sense of the word, it isn't bad, but rarely great.) I don't condone Rod Stewart's slide into less than mediocrity in the standards field (another type of covering that can be wonderful in the right hands.....legions of jazz singer have done just that...), but some musicians just aren't up to the demands of writing decent and lasting original material. I would rather a band or singer kick ass with someone elses work rather than write dreck for themselves.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Yea, nothing like a good murder ballad to make your day......always makes mine....particularly when I am in a murderous mood....

 

Thanks!! I know you knew that, but it bears repeating for the less informed. This is where I trot out my usual suggestion of reading The Rise and Fall of Popular Music, but frankly just about any good book on the history of popular music will tell you the same thing, songs were originally written by songwriters and sung by singers.

 

Frankly I can't tell you how many times I have seen (mostly opening) bands do an entire set of original material, only to have them end with a cover that actually kicks ass; why? because even a fair to middling version of a cover that is either familiar or of great worth in its own right, is better than run of the mill original material. Heck, we all love Wilco and their original songs, but who doesn't like hearing them cover some great song (Something in the Air, I Shall be Released, Comment, Don't Fear the Reaper.... ) As Mountain Bed points out, UT revived many songs, both old and new, and gave them a second or third life. (Hell, my daughter thinks their version of I wanna be your dog is superior to the Stooges....)

 

Billie Holiday wrote very few original songs (can anyone name one??), but she blew even the most mundane pop song out of the water. The art of singing someone else's song can't be diminished. It is an art form in and of itself. (I saw Kelly Hogan, Nora O'Connor and Scott Ligon do a caberet type set a week ago and it was a marvelous blend of old and new covers, jazz, pop and country; Rosie and I had a great time, as did the band.)

 

I only half agree with this. Apropos of the thread on Emmylou Harris. Emmylou is one of the great interpreters of other people's work; but her own material is rarely more than mediocre (in the true sense of the word, it isn't bad, but rarely great.) I don't condone Rod Stewart's slide into less than mediocrity in the standards field (another type of covering that can be wonderful in the right hands.....legions of jazz singer have done just that...), but some musicians just aren't up to the demands of writing decent and lasting original material. I would rather a band or singer kick ass with someone elses work rather than write dreck for themselves.

 

LouieB

 

Interesting - I'd probably just rather here the original. But then - I don't go and see bands and have never really been to that many live shows.

[WaronWar]

I think the biggest rip off is Black Sabbeth has still not gotten in. Yet the "hall of fame," inductes Van Halen, which they should be labeled as the band that defines for what was wrong with 80's mainstream music got in. At least the fame got their inductess somewhat right by including R.E.M. and Patti Smith.

[Sir Stewart]

I think the biggest rip off is Black Sabbeth has still not gotten in. Yet the "hall of fame," inductes Van Halen, which they should be labeled as the band that defines for what was wrong with 80's mainstream music got in. At least the fame got their inductess somewhat right by including R.E.M. and Patti Smith.

I think all the inductss should be stuffed in ducts.

[jff]

The art of singing someone else's song can't be diminished. It is an art form in and of itself.

LouieB

 

I agree with that, but I'll add that it's also an education. You learn what makes a song work (or not work) by doing covers, and you incorporate those lessons into your original music.

 

Probably everyone who ever wrote a great song went through that process.