Tragedy in the land of the Hokies

[OOO]

And a complete waste of money.

 

Looking at just the past 100 years of higher education, this is one of the few mass fatalities to take place on a campus, and one of the only sequential rampages. Most of the incidents that did take place were completely isolated (thinking back, in particular, to the University of Iowa grad student who shot his dissertation committee directly after his defense), and a siren or LED system would only be notifying students of something that 'happened' and wasn't 'happening' anymore.

 

And would it work? The fire alarm goes off in my dorm and twenty kids, at most, evacuate.

 

probably a waste of money, yes. But if you saw an LED sign that said "there is a possible shooter on campus.", its different than a fire alarm.

[Guest Speed Racer]

if you saw an LED sign that said "there is a possible shooter on campus.", its different than a fire alarm.

 

Depends on how much it was overused. If I saw it weekly/monthly because morons were calling in a hoax, I wouldn't give it much thought. I also probably wouldn't see it, given that I'm one of the many students on campus that seldom uses sidewalks or goes through buildings as a means of getting to my classes. And if there were a giant, 500 foot sign on a 3,000 person campus to be used once every 100 years, I probably wouldn't go to that school on account of the way it seemed to be spending my potential tuition money.

[WilcoFan]

Depends on how much it was overused. If I saw it weekly/monthly because morons were calling in a hoax, I wouldn't give it much thought. I also probably wouldn't see it, given that I'm one of the many students on campus that seldom uses sidewalks or goes through buildings as a means of getting to my classes. And if there were a giant, 500 foot sign on a 3,000 person campus to be used once every 100 years, I probably wouldn't go to that school on account of the way it seemed to be spending my potential tuition money.

 

 

I can fix a false positive for you pretty quickly. How about a LED sign that says,

 

Hey, 2 people were killed this morning in a dorm shooting and we haven't caught anybody yet, so we have decided not to have class today.

 

 

That makes it a no-brainer to buy a bunch of them an put them around the campus.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Didn't the school say they had an airhorn/siren system that they opted not to use after the first shooting? I mean, I don't think this is the first time anyone has thought about these things.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I can fix a false positive for you pretty quickly. How about a LED sign that says,

 

Hey, 2 people were killed this morning in a dorm shooting and we haven't caught anybody yet, so we have decided not to have class today.

That makes it a no-brainer to buy a bunch of them an put them around the campus.

 

What about if someone calls in and says, 'I have a shotgun, I'm sitting in the music building, and waiting for some targets'? Could be true, could be false, he could be waiting in the library to lure security away from there, could be a giant waste of money if the actuality of it happening was slimmer than one campus out of thousands per every twenty-five years, more or less.

 

Shit will happen. Some shit is very unlikely to happen but does, and most of it is completely unpreventable, because some folks got crazies for brains. LED signs seem like a good way of causing fear and not at all preventing shit.

[owl]

Might as well just send out emails, I guess. Come on, if it helps some people, how can it hurt? LED signs are inexpensive. If you see one on your way out of the dorm that says "Stay in your room," I think it would help, even if it is a false alarm.

 

I'm not sure why it's worth vehemently arguing against. Maybe there are better solutions. Why not test something like that out and see if it works before you write it off as a stupid waste of money. Your reasoning seems to be "It will cost money, and it wouldn't work for me, so therefore it must be pointless."

 

Ask students if they'd rather have their Sum 41 or Carrot Top concert or a better communications system in the event of emergency. I wonder what they'd say?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

What about if someone calls in and says, 'I have a shotgun, I'm sitting in the music building, and waiting for some targets'? Could be true, could be false, he could be waiting in the library to lure security away from there, could be a giant waste of money if the actuality of it happening was slimmer than one campus out of thousands per every twenty-five years, more or less.

 

Shit will happen. Some shit is very unlikely to happen but does, and most of it is completely unpreventable, because some folks got crazies for brains. LED signs seem like a good way of causing fear and not at all preventing shit.

How to deal with/authenticate potential false alarms and whether an alert system should be in place are two different issues.

 

The fact is that there was a verifiable shooting, not a threat or anything like that.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'm not sure why it's worth vehemently arguing against. Maybe there are better solutions. Why not test something like that out and see if it works before you write it off as a stupid waste of money. Your reasoning seems to be "It will cost money, and it wouldn't work for me, so therefore it must be pointless."

 

What I am 'vehemently arguing against' is the idea that it is better to instill fear about something that is VERY unlikely to happen instead of allocate resources for threats more salient to campuses, like sexual assault awareness, perhaps, or heck, improvement of educational resources.

 

Ask students if they'd rather have their Sum 41 or Carrot Top concert or a better communications system in the event of emergency. I wonder what they'd say?

 

They would probably say none of the above...Our students lobbied for blue safelight phones on campus for a long time because we had a *real* and *substantiated* threat of an attacker coming onto our campus and tackling/attempting to rape female students. We have incidents sexual assaults emailed to us monthly, and so students see the issue as salient - this actually happens on our campus, so we would like to find ways to prevent it. We have NEVER had an issue with guns or rampages on campus, therefore students would be quite unlikely to support such an initiative.

[Reni]

Those LED signs have been very helpful in tracking down abducted children. I know when I see them on the roadways and it has a car description, license plate, etc I pay attention.

 

Obviously, a different scenario, and one that happens a lot more frequently - but it has proven successful.

 

--

 

and....if you are concerned about where your tuition money goes - I am sure you could find a great many things to gripe about without having to look very far. Fiscal waste at universities? Never.

[owl]

What I am 'vehemently arguing against' is the idea that it is better to instill fear about something that is VERY unlikely to happen instead of allocate resources for threats more salient to campuses, like sexual assault awareness, perhaps, or heck, improvement of educational resources.

They would probably say none of the above...Our students lobbied for blue safelight phones on campus for a long time because we had a *real* and *substantiated* threat of an attacker coming onto our campus and tackling/attempting to rape female students. We have incidents sexual assaults emailed to us monthly, and so students see the issue as salient - this actually happens on our campus, so we would like to find ways to prevent it. We have NEVER had an issue with guns or rampages on campus, therefore students would be quite unlikely to support such an initiative.

 

So in the event that a terrible, unprecedented event occurred, how would you effectively communicate with as many students as possible?

[JUDE]

So in the event that a terrible, unprecedented event occurred, how would you effectively communicate with as many students as possible?

 

An emergency broadcast system for cell phones that can be activated (certain cells in a geographic location where an emergencys taking place) that notifys cell phone users in the vicinity via text mail/ or a call. I think that would be feasible.

[MattZ]

They should put LED signs next to the terror-alert level color signs. What are we at in NY now? Orange? Yellow?

[bobbob1313]

FSU just sent out an email to their students asking them to register their cell phone numbers in a database so they can t mass text or call them in the event of an emergency on campus.

[Guest Speed Racer]

So in the event that a terrible, unprecedented event occurred, how would you effectively communicate with as many students as possible?

 

I am primarily saying two things: First, I don't think that VT could have done anything differently given the information that they have; second, I do not see LED signs as a cost-effective measure to take for such a rare occurrance - they seem to be more fear-inducing than practical.

 

BUT, to answer your question:

 

I would most likely set up a dual email/phone tree, in which the president would phone a set of people who would phone each department/building/residence hall with the hopes of literally locking the buildings down. Second, because our server reacts slowly to email with multiple addresses, a president-->faculty-->individual class mailing list email would travel faster than president-->entire campus email. Our campus is small enough that word of mouth would travel quite fast as well. BUT, the only way a contingency plan would work is if all members of the community were aware of the systems in place. I know that our campus does have a plan worked out (heard mention of it yesterday), but I have no clue what it is...

[bobbob1313]

At 37,000 students, my school needs something like the text message or phone call system. Word of mouth wouldn't do anything.

 

Just because your school is small, it doesn't mean that what would work there would work here or in a bigger school. VT is a huge school, there's no way word of mouth or email would work. I think LED signs outside of the buildings would be the most effective.

[EL the Famous]

It's not just the cost of the LED signs, but the infrastructure/staff/policies to update them. I also agree that they indeed provide some sort of warning, but it also incites panic and the resulting chaos could make the situatuion much worse. I think the whole en masse SMS push to student/faculty cellphones is a much more feasible idea.

 

Really, nobody has an absolute answer...becuase there isn't one. Unfortunately, when you've got a guy willing to die...he's capable of alot of damage before you even understand there is something to warn your students about. I really don't see what they could have done differently.

[Dreamin']

Anger and blame are often part of the grieving process after a tragedy, and when the media fans the flames, it certainly doesn't help people heal. I truly believe that law enforcement and campus security, administrators, etc. did their best with the information and resources that they had at the time. It must hurt like hell to have something like this happen at your school, and I'm sure that many people at VA Tech are heartbroken by the difficult choices (mistakes?) they made that day.

 

Unfortunately, when people finally move past pointing fingers to taking responsibility and trying to learn from these tragic events, they will probably focus on ways to improve campus security and student mental health issues will receive little or no attention.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_...a_tech_shooting

 

lots of info on this guy here

As with most suicides, the warning signs were apparent for some time. Family members, faculty, and peers are often the first to notice when a student is going off the deep end, but very few people know how to respond. And of course, the person who is in pain begins to believe that others are indifferent to their suffering and becomes even more isolated. If this report is true, people were obviously concerned about this guy and some even felt threatened by him, yet no one seemed to know what to do (aside from making a referral to counselling). If more people on college campuses were trained to identify and respond to mental health issues appropriately (e.g., who to turn to for help when a student is giving you the creeps), this would go a long way toward making our schools/communities safer.

 

Suicide Prevention

 

Psychosis Sucks

 

Richard Kadison's book, College of the Overwhelmed: The Campus Mental Health Crisis and What to Do About It, is an excellent resource for teachers, parents, students, etc.

 

[/PSA]

[Dreamin']

I'm seriously worried that there might be some shit going down in my room in the next few days and I'm thinking about either heading home or staying in some friends rooms until this all dies down. I'll make the decision once my suitemate actually comes back...

 

I never thought college would be like this, and it probably isn't but what with the stuff in VT, I'm probably being a bit paranoid...

You're being smart, not paranoid. If you've already told your RA about this and no one took action, it's time to take it higher up the chain of command. There is no way that a college will tolerate behaviour (illegal or otherwise) that could endanger other students. Period.

 

On an average day, college administrators are jumpy about liability issues. The day after VA Tech, they should be all ears. Good luck, bobbob!

 

Edit: And if you don't feel safe, chances are the other students living in the dorm (?) may not be safe either. Please tell someone... and if that person does nothing, please tell someone else, etc. until you find someone who will take your concerns seriously.

[wheelco]

I'm still stunned

I've got about a dozen people in my extended family who either went to or taught at VT

[Spawn's dad]

I vowed to stay out of this thread. sigh. can't. resist.

 

a news clip on his unusual behavior...

 

"last year he started to leave very early in the morning."

 

 

I must be a potential mass murderer. and on that note I go back to my news fast.

[Analogman]

I see now they are really pushing the play he wrote as a means to show him as a messed up dude. I can tell you that students write that sort of thing everyday in creative writing classes.

[Reni]

I can tell you that students write that sort of thing everyday in creative writing classes.

 

 

students and professional screenwriters.

[owl]

Yeah, the coverage is pretty gross, with student testimonials about how weird he was, and news segments like "Profile of a Killer," narrated in the scary announcer guy voice.

[Analogman]

students and professional screenwriters.

 

That too.

[quarter23cd]

I can tell you that students write that sort of thing everyday in creative writing classes.

I wince a little every time I see these "scary" profile pieces that are coming out about the guy saying stuff like "He was kind of a loner, a strange guy who sometimes wrote bizarre and disturbing things in his creative writing class." Well shit, you just described me in college.

 

Not to say there weren't plenty of warning signs that the guy had issues, but can we give the scary-announcer-guy-voice a rest? The overall effect of this type of reporting--much like what happened in the wake of Columbine--is that, intentional or not, it ends up shifting the attention away from the actual perpetrator and almost turns it into a demonization of the unpopular "weird" kids in general.