MrRain422 Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Personally I think that there's a better case that Rizzuto should have been left out of the HoF than there is for Tramm getting in, and I say that as a Tigers fan. I really wish Rizzuto hadn't just died so that I could say that without feeling like I'm pissing on the man's grave. Stupid baseball. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Rizzuto is a beloved HOFer. Trammell is not. If Trammell had played for NY or BOS . . . WTF? Not that this changes anything, but Rizzuto got in pretty recently through the Veterans Committee which has to be viewed as a HOF with an asterisk. I wouldn't exactly call him a beloved HOFer. But I'd understand why Trammell fans would be upset. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 the Veterans Committee which has to be viewed as a HOF with an asteriskHuh? So, guys elected to the Hall by the Veterans Committee are somehow less worthy? I would agree that Rizzuto was borderline at best, but it's not like that committee just inducts every guy who ever suited up. Look at who they've rejected over the last several years. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 The Veterans Committee often does reward nice guys who played on good teams. Their record is bad, but then again, so is the BBWAA's, so whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I vote for Jim Rice Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Huh?So, guys elected to the Hall by the Veterans Committee are somehow less worthy? Yes. Maybe not in every case, but certainly in this one. Rizzuto couldnt get in and didnt get in under the standard voting and eligibility rules. He was inducted in 1994 (I think) by the Veterans Committee. You dont think that adds an asterisk to his HOF status? Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 When I read Ballpark Blues a couple of years ago, I imagined Youk as the star player, pretty much because I had just finished Moneyball. Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Rizzuto was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1994 by the Veterans Committee, following a long campaign for his election by Yankee fans who were frustrated that he had not received the honor. The push for Rizzuto became especially acute after 1984, when the Veterans elected Pee Wee Reese, the similarly-talented and similarly-regarded shortstop of the crosstown Brooklyn Dodgers. Supporter Ted Williams claimed that his Red Sox would have won most of the Yankees' 1940s and 1950s pennants if they had had Rizzuto at shortstop.[6] Though the claim is statistically dubious, the statement suggests the level of respect Rizzuto's play commanded. Williams was no doubt influenced by the 1949 and 1950 seasons, which coincided with Rizzuto's best playing performances and which both resulted in Boston finishing just one game behind the 97-win Yankees. Link to post Share on other sites
Leo Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Driving down to Cleveland for tonight's game. Sitting first row behind Cleveland's on-deck circle. Look for two guys wearing Tiger gear engaging the Indian fan in gentlemanly, sporting banter. GO TIGERS! Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 When I read Ballpark Blues a couple of years ago, I imagined Youk as the star player, pretty much because I had just finished Moneyball. I can get that book for $.01. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I enjoyed it muchly. It's about a minor league beat writer who gets to tag along for the upward spiral of a hot Red Sox prospect. Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I enjoyed it muchly. It's about a minor league beat writer who gets to tag along for the upward spiral of a hot Red Sox prospect. It looks like the book starts out in Rochester, NY at Frontier Field. I've been there a few times. Just sayin. I'll have to get it. Thanks, pal. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 It looks like the book starts out in Rochester, NY at Frontier Field. I've been there a few times. Just sayin. I'll have to get it. Thanks, pal.I've got a loaner, if you want to send me yr addy. Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I've got a loaner, if you want to send me yr addy. I appreciate it, but there's no telling when I would get around to reading it. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Ahh, thanks for letting me know - it is a galley copy, so I would've liked to see it back eventually. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yes. Maybe not in every case, but certainly in this one. Rizzuto couldnt get in and didnt get in under the standard voting and eligibility rules. He was inducted in 1994 (I think) by the Veterans Committee. You dont think that adds an asterisk to his HOF status?No, I don't. He's in the Hall of Fame, end of story. You can argue all you want about his worthiness, but he's in, no asterisks. I'm not aware of any cheating allegations involving Rizzuto, or anything else of that nature in which his name has been mentioned, so why would there be an asterisk? Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 No, I don't. He's in the Hall of Fame, end of story. You can argue all you want about his worthiness, but he's in, no asterisks. I'm not aware of any cheating allegations involving Rizzuto, or anything else of that nature in which his name has been mentioned, so why would there be an asterisk? I agree with you in large part. I am not arguing about his worthiness, and I didnt mean to suggest that his plaque should have an asterisk on it. But I was responding to Leo, who was lamenting the fact that Trammell is not in the HOF and has superior numbers to Rizzuto. Rizzuto retired in 1956. He was inducted to the Hall in 1994. That's almost 40 years later. Again, as was stated above, after a long and drawn out campaign by Yankee fans who were peeved that Pee Wee Reese had made it but Rizzuto hadn't. The asterisk is in my mind -- it shouldn't be on his plaque. But I firmly believe that Rizzuto made it to the HOF in large part because of factors outside of his play in the game. And that includes the groundswell of support from Yankee fans, as well as the fact that the Veterans Committee was likely comprised of people that knew him and liked him, as opposed to the more traditional voters who for 40 years didnt think his stats stacked up. But I agree with you -- he's in the Hall. End of story. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 The asterisk is in my mind -- it shouldn't be on his plaque. But I firmly believe that Rizzuto made it to the HOF in large part because of factors outside of his play in the game. And that includes the groundswell of support from Yankee fans, as well as the fact that the Veterans Committee was likely comprised of people that knew him and liked him, as opposed to the more traditional voters who for 40 years didnt think his stats stacked up.33 years, but yeah. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 That's almost 40 years later... who for 40 years didnt think his stats stacked up. 33 years, but yeah. I got lazy in the second reference. But didn't he retire in 1956? And doesn't that make it 38 years? Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I got lazy in the second reference. But didn't he retire in 1956? And doesn't that make it 38 years?Five years after retirement before eligibility kicks in... edit: I'm just being a pain in the ass. I agree with everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Five years after retirement before eligibility kicks in... edit: I'm just being a pain in the ass. I agree with everyone. I should know better than to question... Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Red Sox losing to RaysYanks losing to O's Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Red Sox losing to RaysYanks losing to O'sThanks! Didn't realize this was going on. Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yeah. I went home for lunch, and found out this was on. Ugh. Link to post Share on other sites
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