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I didn't say it was off-color. I just don't happen to care, which I believe to be a perfectly valid response to the question. Seriously, why does it matter? Can't you enjoy art for what it is, without having to know every personal detail about the people who created it?

 

I'm not saying such a question can't be posted here, I'm just questioning why the answer is important. Clear?

 

Oh, and thanks very much for putting words in my mouth, by the way. That's like attending an open debate and claiming I said something that I didn't. Talk about "playground politics."

 

"Hey what were you guys talking about? Oh yeah? Uh Huh? Well I don't care." Perfectly valid......and banal. You paint a rich taperstry of apathy that has enhanced our conversation, thank you.

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One True Vine

 

I agree with that guy. There is a verse in John in the Bible about Christ being "the true vine."

 

Who knows what Tweedy really believes, but One True Vine definitely sounds like a song about salvation. Just listen to it.

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I know you're not referring to me. :brow

 

I've never expressed much of an interest in Jeff's personal life (or those of anyone else in the band) except maybe as it relates directly to his bands or his music (and not even then, really). I don't care about his religion, his politics, his favorite color, or anything else. I may have commented on his health back when that was a concern, but my interest there doesn't extend beyond the kind of well-wishing one would offer to anyone.

 

Oh. Wait. I know what his favorite pizza is. That makes me a Tweedy gossip whore. You're right, I'm a total hypocrite.

 

I personally saw you hide out in someone's basement while Jeff was there. Stalker.

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I was just wondering if the guys are religious or what? Jeff has some songs that would say he isn't (Theologians dont know nothing about my soul, and Ruling Class has Jesus smokin crack) and some that might say he is. (Satan your kingdom must come down, Airline to Heaven-even though its woody) Any thoughts?

Since the answer might help illuminate the music itself, I think this is a fair topic for discussion.

 

Right now I don't have much to add to the discussion except that I don't think "Theologians" is anti-religious; I think it objects instead to the arrogance of men who claim to speak for God. It resists the notion of one-size-fits-all spirituality, observing that our spiritual lives are too personal and too complex to reduce to a canned experience. In fact, to the degree that it expresses belief in a supernatural plane, it might be said to endorse spirituality.

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Back on the farm...

 

 

I think I can settle the debate. Check the pic -->

 

 

rosary.jpg

 

Whenever I figure out how to make the picture big enough without having to click on it, I'll be out of limbo.

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I agree with that guy. There is a verse in John in the Bible about Christ being "the true vine."

 

Who knows what Tweedy really believes, but One True Vine definitely sounds like a song about salvation. Just listen to it.

Tweedy uses biblical allusions in some of his songs. There's a line at the end of Theologians that's more or lessed cribbed from John. He's also written at least two songs with the phrase "god-shaped hole," which is a Christian theological concept. I think it would be a mistake, though, to interpret those allusions to mean he's a Christian or that song x is about Jesus, salvation, etc.

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I agree with that guy. There is a verse in John in the Bible about Christ being "the true vine."

 

Who knows what Tweedy really believes, but One True Vine definitely sounds like a song about salvation. Just listen to it.

 

It is about salvation, but I think Jeff wrote it for his wife.

 

Notice how he says that he was "the last in line / for the one true vine," but the person who saved him then became his one true vine. He isn't talking about a universal savior like Christ, but an individual who turned his life around.

 

It's definitely a biblical allusion, but I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity.

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Has anyone mentioned "Hell is Chrome"? I mean, what is Heaven without Hell? And the Devil being chrome? ...That is such a lyric to wrap your mind around. Other lyrics (just for fun, not without any ounce of grandiose intention):

  • To live without a savior . . . Shouldn't be ashamed.
  • Music is my Saviour.
  • Your prayers will never be answered again.
  • No love's as random as God's love; I can't stand it.
  • Let's turn our prayers into outrageous dares.
  • I want to hold you in the Bible-black predawn.
  • Jesus, don't cry. (I know, roll your eyes. :lol)
  • Our love is all of God's money.
  • God is with us every day.
  • The night is dissolving in a cup God lifts to toast the lightning.

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I was just wondering if the guys are religious or what? Jeff has some songs that would say he isn't (Theologians dont know nothing about my soul, and Ruling Class has Jesus smokin crack) and some that might say he is. (Satan your kingdom must come down, Airline to Heaven-even though its woody) Any thoughts?

 

Jeff's religion is THE MUSIC and EVERYTHING that goes with it. The uplifting; when there is a raukus sing along, and the heartbreaking; when your record lable drops you. He and the rest of the band show day in and day out, that their devotion is THE MUSIC. This, with more heart and soul than the most fervent of religionists. "I was saved by rock and roll".

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I agree with Beltmann's response. If I can expand on it a bit, I think what lies at the foundation of "Theologians" is the acknowledgement that the Bible is open to so many interpretations and essentially it's why we have so many different Christian religions. One religion takes a verse from the bible one way while another takes it a different way. All that song is saying is, "I'll decide for myself....I don't need you to think for me."

 

I think Jeff Tweedy is like a lot of us. Faith/non-Faith is a big step in someones life. After much soul searching you ultimately go with what your heart tells you. And you do that by filtering out bible thumpers and this Dawkins guy that wrote "The God Delusion". It has to come from you....you can't let anyone's opinion or rhetoric influence your decision. I really think deep down THAT is what "Theologians" is all about.

 

Hope it helped answer your question.

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Guest Left Arm Tan

this was a great thread to find late in the game. a lot of really pissy responses, at least more so than usual.

 

i think it's fairly obvious that jeff was probably raised a christian, in some manner. but commenting on whether he is a christian or not is beyond me. i think i've always sort of taken his more spiritual lyrics to show that he's kind of unsure about things.

 

and there's a huge freakin' difference between speculating where the loft is or where jeff lives, and discussing his religion. it's absurd to even make such a comment. and the whole, "i'm only about the music" thing is so pretentious.

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please explain.

 

it makes you seem like you think your an "elite" wilco fan, whereas the rest of us, who might wonder about something trivial like jeff's religious or spiritual side, are "just fans", when really, we're all about the music because we all like wilco.

 

i've just always thought those comments are annoying. like the classic people who refuse to use the term "movie." they always refer to everything as "film" but they think it implies that they are elite fans of the art form.

 

just my opinion...

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it makes you seem like you think your an "elite" wilco fan, whereas the rest of us, who might wonder about something trivial like jeff's religious or spiritual side, are "just fans", when really, we're all about the music because we all like wilco.

 

i've just always thought those comments are annoying. like the classic people who refuse to use the term "movie." they always refer to everything as "film" but they think it implies that they are elite fans of the art form.

 

just my opinion...

 

if someone isn't interested in anything other than the music, it doesn't make them pretentious. how can the way someone truly feels about something, make them pretentious? because it goes against the way you feel? you're making assumtions based on nothing.

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if someone isn't interested in anything other than the music, it doesn't make them pretentious. how can the way someone truly feels about something, make them pretentious? because it goes against the way you feel? you're making assumtions based on nothing.

 

just that fact that you find it necessary to make the statement "i'm only about the music" when someone talks about something a little outside the music is in itself pretentious, to me.

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just that fact that you find it necessary to make the statement "i'm only about the music" when someone talks about something a little outside the music is in itself pretentious, to me.

 

 

Please. Take a look back at any of your older posts and you completely contradict yourselves. Lay off this guy ... it was an innocent question. You may like to think you're all the keepers of the Wilco gate, but they are public figures, and this is a public forum.

 

 

so when someone say something like this, and it's just not true, how should I respond?

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