Sigur Ros will not sell out.

[Guest Jules]

Age may have little to do with intelligence, but it sure does influence knowledge and experience.

thank you ction.

[EL the Famous]

going back to earlier examples of McCartney and professional atheletes...as i've stated before, do you guys really have an understanding of how much any of those folks HAVE given to those less fortunate over the years via their own donations, benefit work and community programs?

 

i'm all for helping those who are less fortunate than I, but helping someone doesn't always entail doing everyting FOR them...but focusing on getting them to a state of being able to help themselves so they can do things FOR themselves. a scenario has to be figured out that doesn't keep people shackled to their disparity, but allows them the resources to get themselves out of it...so they in turn can do the same for someone else and so on.

 

i don't like it when people say people can't bring themsleves out of things and we need to do it for them...because that doesn't really solve the problem, it perpetuates it. so, would i feed a starving person in my presence provided i have more than your fill? of course. but it would come w/ a caveat that it be the steeping stone to get them to a place where they can and want to feed themselves.

 

no, it's not that simple...but nothing is. sense of entitlement, be you rich or poor, black or white, christian or atheist, young or old...it's a huge problem and it's crippling our nation. 'i want or need that, give me it' versus 'i want or need that, i'm going to get it'.

[Good Old Neon]

going back to earlier examples of McCartney and professional atheletes...as i've stated before, do you guys really have an understanding of how much any of those folks HAVE given to those less fortunate over the years via their own donations, benefit work and community programs?

 

i'm all for helping those who are less fortunate than I, but helping someone doesn't always entail doing everyting FOR them...but focusing on getting them to a state of being able to help themselves so they can do things FOR themselves. a scenario has to be figured out that doesn't keep people shackled to their disparity, but allows them the resources to get themselves out of it...so they in turn can do the same for someone else and so on.

 

i don't like it when people say people can't bring themsleves out of things and we need to do it for them...because that doesn't really solve the problem, it perpetuates it. so, would i feed a starving person in my presence provided i have more than your fill? of course. but it would come w/ a caveat that it be the steeping stone to get them to a place where they can and want to feed themselves.

 

no, it's not that simple...but nothing is. sense of entitlement, be you rich or poor, black or white, christian or atheist, young or old...it's a huge problem and it's crippling our nation. 'i want or need that, give me it' versus 'i want or need that, i'm going to get it'.

 

In many cases, yes, I agree, a hand up is better than a hand out, however, there are many trouble spots around the world that are not conducive to a pick em up, shake em off, give em a kind kick in the pants and send them on their way type of charity.

 

Take Darfur for example, no amount of tough love,

[Beltmann]

Age may have little to do with intelligence, but it sure does influence knowledge and experience.

And therefore wisdom.

 

All I know is that my 33-year-old self sure is embarrassed about the notions espoused by my 20-year-old self. I'm no less idealistic now, but I'm much wiser--and hopefully I'll continue to accumulate wisdom with each passing year.

[mountain bed]

I certainly laugh when I think of myself at 20.

I was certainly crazy at 20, but around 25 or so was when I started to become who I am today. Your mileage may vary.

[MattZ]

As a general matter, I have a feeling that most people would feel the reverse is true. I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

 

I certainly laugh when I think of myself at 20.

 

 

All I know is that my 33-year-old self sure is embarrassed about the notions espoused by my 20-year-old self. I'm no less idealistic now, but I'm much wiser--and hopefully I'll continue to accumulate wisdom with each passing year.

 

Hey! I said that!

[Guest Jules]

They portray working mothers as insensitive feminists, putting their own needs before those of their children, but don

[Good Old Neon]

Generalize much?

 

Miss the point much?

[Guest Jules]

Miss the point much?

No, not really.

[Good Old Neon]

No, not really.

 

I'd tend to disagree.

[Spawn's dad]

I'm not a socialist or a communist or any "ist" for that matter

 

 

I think everyone will agree that you're not an ist, but a tive.

[Good Old Neon]

I think everyone will agree that you're not an ist, but a tive.

 

And just what sort of "tive" would that be?

[Guest Jules]

average median income

 

please define

[Good Old Neon]

please define

 

Based on the numbers I've looked at - between 33 and 56 thousand dollars - give or take.

[Guest Jules]

Based on the numbers I've looked at - between 33 and 56 thousand dollars - give or take.

No, please define "average median"

[Spawn's dad]

And just what sort of "tive" would that be?

 

argumentative

[EL the Famous]

jnick, you make some solid points. for the record, my stance in no way takes into account nor applies to such horrible areas globally like Darfur...i'm speaking more US-centric. that said, while i agree w/ a better living wage and some level of corporate reform, i don't think i'm overstating the issue of entitlement at all.

 

it's that sense of entitlement that creates a huge divide from said 'greatest generation' from today. not all, but a lot of people are spending less time taking care of themselves and spending more time clamoring for someone to take care of them, let alone ascribe to any sort of overall civic duty. everybody's too busy bitching about things versus doing anything to remedy their situation.

 

i refuse to lay down, give up and say 'people can't help themselves'.

[Good Old Neon]

No, please define "average median"

 

What are you getting at here

[Guest Jules]

If I've combined to words - average and median that are either redundant or do not fit together logically

 

Or, mean completely different things. Apology accepted.

 

Edit: And for the record, 2006 median income went up to $48,201.

[Good Old Neon]

argumentative

 

Mr. Pot, might I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?

 

I think that goes for anyone who is still here after 20 pages.

[Spawn's dad]

Treehug'n Dirt Worshipper 57

 

please.

[Atticus]

Politicians need to stand up to big business and start representing their constituents instead of folding to pressure to keep wages low. Will it cut into the bottom line, absolutely, but, I think, the detrimental effect poverty has on our society comes at a greater societal, spiritual and economic cost.

 

I think that some of this argument is a little too short-sided. (edit: I should clarify that I agree corporations have too much influence on politics, I'm speaking more to the idea of an immediate, government-inforced living wage)

 

Everyone always complains about the big evil corporations. Who do you think employs so many of these downtrodden workers you're talking about?

 

when you call for a wholesale "fuck the corporations, impose a living wage!" idea, what are you going to do about the fact that it will immediately cripple many of the existing corporations and cause massive layoffs and even more outsourcing?

 

Many Americans try to invest in a 401k or some kind of retirement plan--most of those plans invest in mutual funds that consist of stocks of the big evil corporations. When you dismantle the corporations are you also going to create a fund to bail out everyone's savings/retirement plans?

 

I am all for gradual change that helps put more money in the hands of those who need it, but there has to be some element of reality and long-term planning in it.

[Good Old Neon]

Or, mean completely different things. Apology accepted.

 

Edit: And for the record, 2006 median income went up to $48,201.

 

 

For the record, from the US Census Bureau:

 

"Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2004-2006"

 

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/inco.../statemhi3.html

 

Or am I missing something?

[caliber66]

The "Three-Year" part is important. It's an average, over three years, of the median income.

[Good Old Neon]

The "Three-Year" part is important. It's an average, over three years, of the median income.

 

Ah, thank you - I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, just trying to edumacate my own self.

 

Thank you.